Pathfinder 1E Knowledge skills in play(am I doing it right)

[GameOgre]

One of my players (a Wizard) with a high Int started to heavily invest in Knowledge skills.Her bonus is very high indeed at 6th level"+6 Int,+9 skill,+3 magic bonus="+18 to her D20 roll. She hasn't even had to use the boost from identify to identify magic items but frankly I don't have much of a issue with that as it at least takes a little bit of time.

What has worried me is every fight she starts off rolling a knowledge check to see if she can identify whatever creature she is fighting and its weakness and strengths along with any powers or abilities it has. She does this as a quick action(or swift action) and so far has unerringly used to to her advantage (and the parties advantage). She does have just about every skill that would be needed to do this and paid for it fair and square.

Now so far I have told her the type of creature and its major weakness and/or it's major abilities but frankly this has made it so that many of the encounters are less difficult and in some ways less fun.

Are we doing this right? For most creatures the DC is 10+CR and rare ones 15+CR and it doesn't really take any time. With the +18 she doesn't fail very often,though granted not many are really rare yet.

Assuming we have it right,how much information should I tell her? Am I cheating her with just the one or two things?

I don't want to cheat her,after all she spent the points in those skills and in some cases perhaps a feat for a greater bonus with focus skill ect..


Just trying to figure out how it's supposed to be done.

 

[Cadence]

What has worried me is every fight she starts off rolling a knowledge check to see if she can identify whatever creature she is fighting and its weakness and strengths along with any powers or abilities it has. She does this as a quick action(or swift action) and so far has unerringly used to to her advantage (and the parties advantage). She does have just about every skill that would be needed to do this and paid for it fair and square.

You can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster's CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster's CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster's CR, or more. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information. ... Try Again: No. The check represents what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn't let you know something that you never learned in the first place.

If its something most people have never heard of or is only considered a distant legend then its a 15+CR then she only gets two or three bits of information on average, right? Maybe you could roll randomly from all of the special attacks, defenses, and movements to see which one she remembers? (Big difference between remembering the medusa's hair is snakes, and remembering the turn to stone if she only gets one.) Maybe have her remember false things on a one? (So one out of every 20 combats anyway).

There are a couple of things you could do once in a while to add that mystery back in: if its a swift action for each check have groups of different kinds of monsters, monsters with five or six interesting features, monsters from the skill she is least adept at (unless she's maxed out all five), big bad guy figures out what she's doing and has the creatures covered by illusion or disguise so she identifies the wrong thing, bad lighting, look alike creatures (like the sahuagin variant that looks like a sea-elf), and magically created creatures that are unknown to anyone but their creator. With a 22 Int (at level 6?!) is there some attribute she's massively neglected that could be exploited? Of course you can't do any one of those too often without penalizing her for knowing the rules.

 

[GameOgre]

Thanks for your reply!

I think you hit on something great I can use. I will make up a table with different categories like: 1-Attack forms,2-Movement abilities,3-Special attack powers,4-Special defense powers,5-Ecology,6-Arcane uses,7-mating habits,8-Treasures.

Actually this will probably end up with me telling her far more information than before but I'm not out to Nurf her abilities I just wanted more structure to what she found out.

ok,well the old school part of me is ALWAYS out to NURF the modern empowered PC rules set but its not something I want to embrace. I'm trying to roll with it and play like its Pathfinder, NOT AD&D.

Thanks for your help!

 

[sheadunne]

One of my players (a Wizard) with a high Int started to heavily invest in Knowledge skills.Her bonus is very high indeed at 6th level"+6 Int,+9 skill,+3 magic bonus="+18 to her D20 roll. She hasn't even had to use the boost from identify to identify magic items but frankly I don't have much of a issue with that as it at least takes a little bit of time.

What has worried me is every fight she starts off rolling a knowledge check to see if she can identify whatever creature she is fighting and its weakness and strengths along with any powers or abilities it has. She does this as a quick action(or swift action) and so far has unerringly used to to her advantage (and the parties advantage). She does have just about every skill that would be needed to do this and paid for it fair and square.

Now so far I have told her the type of creature and its major weakness and/or it's major abilities but frankly this has made it so that many of the encounters are less difficult and in some ways less fun.

Are we doing this right? For most creatures the DC is 10+CR and rare ones 15+CR and it doesn't really take any time. With the +18 she doesn't fail very often,though granted not many are really rare yet.

Assuming we have it right,how much information should I tell her? Am I cheating her with just the one or two things?

I don't want to cheat her,after all she spent the points in those skills and in some cases perhaps a feat for a greater bonus with focus skill ect..


Just trying to figure out how it's supposed to be done.

Just keep it simple. The player can ask one question for each success. That's the way we've always done it.

Example questions.

Does the creature have DR?
Does the creature have SR?
Is the creature resistant to fire?
Can the creature cast spells?
etc

Turn it over to the player's hand. One yes or no question per a success +5. Remember, it's equally useful to know that the creature doesn't have DR as it is to know that it does. It's up to you whether you want to require specific or general questions, whether you want to have them as if it has DR/Good or is just DR and then give them one specific DR it has or how much it has of DR.

 

[Starfox]

Just keep it simple. The player can ask one question for each success.

This is a good way to do it. I like to make up crazy stories the PC read about the creature, especially if the PC is using bardic knowledge.

But yes, this is definitely the way you do it in Pathfinder, and a big part of the reason why wizards and bards are so generally useful.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I think there's nothing wrong with a player who has a character that should know stuff and who spent all those resources on knowing stuff to know a lot of stuff.

However, there are practical limits. Notably, a knowledge check tells you about the general abilities for a creature's race, but does not reflect any class levels, feat choices, or equipment it might have. PF is built around customization, and it is important that creatures be customized.

And frankly, knowledge is not everything. If you find out that a creature has DR, but you don't have the thing needed to beat it, the only thing the check did was let you know why. It helps to use challenges that are active and dynamic. If a creature surprise attacks the players, or is interacting with some third party in some way, then they can't just cherry-pick the appropriate tactics all the time. And of course, it's important to use challenges that are hard.

 

[doghead]

Just keep it simple. The player can ask one question for each success. That's the way we've always done it.

<snip>

I quite like this. I might have to look at doing something similar. Thanks

thotd