'Known World' - OD&D

[Cthulhudrew]

I strongly disagree. Part of what failed in the 2e conversion (other than, admittedly, the generally bad marketing and writing) was that Mystara was a setting molded around the concepts and mechanics of OD&D. As soon as you switch it to 2e you add certain complexities of 2e and remove certain complexities of OD&D, and you end up with a highly different setting that just doesn't seem to quite fit the system.

I'd have to disagree. "Mystara" initially was like you said- the OD&D rules and the module series, but once the game world began to be developed in the Gazetteers and Princess Ark series of stories in Dragon, it became much more than its rules set. In fact, new rules were constantly being added and old rules twisted/reworked so that things that weren't possible under OD&D could be added to the game world. (Ex. Dwarf-clerics, half-elves, monsters as PCs, bards, etc.)

What really killed the transition to 2E, I think, is that not a lot of thought went into the 'porting over. The two boxed sets they released- Karameikos and Glantri- didn't add enough to the existing Gazetteers for old school Mystaraphiles to find much of interest there, and they didn't do enough (IMO) to distinguish what Mystara was, why it was different, for gamers new to the setting. What they needed to do, but decided against, was something that presented the entirety of the world (or at least the Known World) to familiarize newcomers, and then developed the setting in more detail. (Like the FRCS and subsequent expansion books). As it was, it was like getting just a tiny piece of the setting at a time, and with such a glut of settings out there at that particular period in time, it just didn't stand out from the rest of 2E settings.

It would be the same in 3e. Too much of the backstory of Mystara depends upon certain conventions that make perfect sense in OD&D, that would make no sense at all in 3e without massively changing the 3e rules, or creating serious inconsistencies in the Mystara setting.

The "conversion project" people have argued this point long and hard, and I am in total disagreement with the point (which is largely why I left that project). The scope of the rules of 3E lends itself very well to a Mystara conversion, for the reasons I mentioned above- that the designers were constantly having to tweak or add to the existing rules set in order to do new things they wanted to do. 3E has such a wide range of options to it that you've got a ready made ability to bring new elements in and explain existing elements very well.

 

[foehammerx]

Hey, was the old 80 D&D cartoon set in the Known world, or Oerth, or something else????

Was just wondering as i always thought Warduke was from the known world. As the module he was introduced in I thought was Known World. But now in Dragon Magazine they say Warduke is part of the Horned Society in Greyhawk (Oerth).?

 

[Davelozzi]

Hey, was the old 80 D&D cartoon set in the Known world, or Oerth, or something else????

Was just wondering as i always thought Warduke was from the known world. As the module he was introduced in I thought was Known World. But now in Dragon Magazine they say Warduke is part of the Horned Society in Greyhawk (Oerth).?

I'm not sure, but I thought that the show was not set in any of the official worlds. At any rate, I wouldn't give much credence to the fact that one of the magazines says he's in the Horned Society. People and places have been moved from campaign to campaign before. For example, the recent revisiting of Isle of Dread in Dungeon was set in Greyhawk, but the original was clearly set (and in fact introduced) the Known World.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

What they needed to do, but decided against, was something that presented the entirety of the world (or at least the Known World) to familiarize newcomers, and then developed the setting in more detail. (Like the FRCS and subsequent expansion books). As it was, it was like getting just a tiny piece of the setting at a time, and with such a glut of settings out there at that particular period in time, it just didn't stand out from the rest of 2E settings.

In a way, though, that was being faithful to the gazeteers, which worked in much the same manner.

Honestly, if Joshuan's Almanac had been named something more obviously meant to serve as an overview of the Known World (Joshuan's marked a break with the PWA in that a lot of the details of the world, like the Hollow World, were unknown to him and thus left out, or considered rumor and legend) and HAD served as such (the map, while evocative, was really not very helpful, and with some countries, like Ierendi, you have no idea what the country is about from the almanac's description), it could have been fine.

Karameikos, especially, makes a GREAT first setting in the 2E boxed set, but players expected more context by that point. I, personally, design my games from the micro scale on up normally, so the piecemeal approach works for me, but not everyone works this way.

 

[Estlor]

I will readily admit there are certain conventions to the OD&D Known World setting that make it challenging to convert, but this is the same sort of hurdle you jump over with any setting when the rules change. The problem is when you cling to the old rules and want to see the existing setting make the transition without any changes at all.

Some things about the Known World stand out as OD&D assumptions. Clerics don't have spells until 2nd level, every elf is partially a wizard, dwarves are resistant to magic, druids and paladins don't exist until higher levels, and so on. If you try to carry each and every last one of these over, all you've done is create Castles & Crusades with a feat and skill system. That's why it's a conversion of the setting; some things just have to change along the way, and you're forced to handle it one of two ways: 1) Retcon it so it was "always" that way or 2) Come up with a metaplot event that changes things.

There's a lot you can do to reconcile the two systems by using prestige classes and regional feats. Suddenly you can have elven wizards that can cast spells better in armor than other races because they took a regional feat. Likewise, your dwarf can be resistant to magic but unable to become an arcane spellcaster because of a regional feat. OD&D druids, paladins, and foresters can come back to life as prestige classes, and if you REALLY don't want to see them about before higher levels, just drop the base classes and adjust from there.

The important thing is that the rules of 3.X are flexible enough and focused on presenting players with options, making them broad enough to fit Mystara in with only a few minor wiggling points. It doesn't require reengineering races, altering classes, and forcing restrictions that existed solely for the purpose of balance, a purpose that is no longer necessary in a less off-kilter system.

Why aren't there many dwarven wizards? Because Kagyar taught them arcane magic was wicked, and it is a taboo among their people. Dwarves can be wizards, but they're met with scorn, often exiled to the surface of Rockhome to prevent them from "infecting" other races. Those dwarves that raise this superstition to near-religious belief take the regional feat that makes them more resistant to arcane spells but unable to learn them down the line. Why are halflings "hobbit-like"? They love to eat, drink, and dance in carefree ways. They have the same statistics as every other halfling in the 3.X universe, they just look and act differently, especially when they get older.