D&D 5E Kobolds are also from the Feywild now?

[JEB]

Now I'm curious how things would have gone differently in a world where 4E changed the mechanics, but kept 3E's approach to settings - every setting carries on from prior iterations but can have its own distinctive cosmology and lore. And if they'd made Nentir Vale a strongly supported core setting, but not a default assumption that other settings had to be rewritten to match. So no sweeping changes to the Realms, etc. Would people have still been turned away by the mechanics alone, or was it the general sense of "let's remake everything" that caused many veteran fans to give it a pass?

(Also, it'd be neat if they brought back Nentir Vale for 2024 edition. 4E fans have been waiting long enough. Though I also kind of like the meta-idea that the First World is actually the Nentir Vale canon...)

 

[Micah Sweet]

Now I'm curious how things would have gone differently in a world where 4E changed the mechanics, but kept 3E's approach to settings - every setting carries on from prior iterations but can have its own distinctive cosmology and lore. And if they'd made Nentir Vale a strongly supported core setting, but not a default assumption that other settings had to be rewritten to match. So no sweeping changes to the Realms, etc. Would people have still been turned away by the mechanics alone, or was it the general sense of "let's remake everything" that caused many veteran fans to give it a pass?

(Also, it'd be neat if they brought back Nentir Vale for 2024 edition. 4E fans have been waiting long enough. Though I also kind of like the meta-idea that the First World is actually the Nentir Vale canon...)

You know, if that First World stuff was explicitly described as the story of Nentir Vale, and not the biggest lore retcon in the history of D&D, I would have had no problem with it at all.

 

[Hussar]

Now I'm curious how things would have gone differently in a world where 4E changed the mechanics, but kept 3E's approach to settings - every setting carries on from prior iterations but can have its own distinctive cosmology and lore. And if they'd made Nentir Vale a strongly supported core setting, but not a default assumption that other settings had to be rewritten to match. So no sweeping changes to the Realms, etc. Would people have still been turned away by the mechanics alone, or was it the general sense of "let's remake everything" that caused many veteran fans to give it a pass?

(Also, it'd be neat if they brought back Nentir Vale for 2024 edition. 4E fans have been waiting long enough. Though I also kind of like the meta-idea that the First World is actually the Nentir Vale canon...)

I don't think we have to speculate too much.

You just described 5e.

5e keeps most 4e mechanical changes, but, then uses the older lore and canon. And becomes the edition where everyone who disavowed 4e as not even a role playing game or just a board game or whatever, suddenly jump up and down singing how fantastic 5e is.

4e's mistake wasn't in the mechanics but in the presentation.

 

[Cadence]

5e keeps most 4e mechanical changes,

Skill challenges? AEDU classes? Being yelled at to heal?

 

[JEB]

I don't think we have to speculate too much.

You just described 5e.

5e keeps most 4e mechanical changes, but, then uses the older lore and canon. And becomes the edition where everyone who disavowed 4e as not even a role playing game or just a board game or whatever, suddenly jump up and down singing how fantastic 5e is.

4e's mistake wasn't in the mechanics but in the presentation.

It's true that 5E keeps more of 4E than people think (daily/encounter/at-will powers; rests; recharge mechanics for monsters...), but it's still very different in other ways (bounded accuracy; much looser structure to class, race, monster, spell, and magic item design; classes are back to 20 levels instead of 30; feats optional and ostensibly balanced with ASIs; backgrounds as a core element...). That's not just a matter of presentation.

That said, presentation absolutely matters, which is why I wonder if a different approach to lore could have helped 4E do better, or if it was always going to be a hard sell for some due to the altered play experience.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Being yelled at to heal?

People making things up about it.

 

[Hussar]

People making things up about it.

Not to belabour this old chestnut but it’s funny. In 5e every single character can tell their own arms back on. But apparently having a class that can let you spend hit dice is unbelievable.

 

[Voadam]

Skill challenges? AEDU classes? Being yelled at to heal?

Monster roles? Minions, elites, solos? Class roles?

Defining what happens when you flank?

 

[LongTimeLurker]

Reading through the Dragon+ article on Monsters of the Multiverse:

"Neat". I've found that not paying attention to a thing that WoTC does or giving a darn about this version of d&d is the easiest way of ignoring the travesty that's happening with the lore.

 

[Micah Sweet]

"Neat". I've found that not paying attention to a thing that WoTC does or giving a darn about this version of d&d is the easiest way of ignoring the travesty that's happening with the lore.

I really wish I could. As it is, I feel like they keep poking at an open wound.