D&D 5E Kobolds are also from the Feywild now?

[Jer]

psssst

The Explorer's Guide to Wildemount already exists.

I know some people say it doesn't really count as Nerath per se...but it has all of the assumptions of the 4E Lore built in from the PHB & DMG.

I was passing on it because I'm not a Critical Role viewer but you have piqued my interest- is it really close to Nerath and the 4e points of light setting?

 

[Hussar]

Heh. It’s nice to know I’m not alone in largely ignoring WotC lore. Heck I didn’t play in a tar or WotC setting until a 4e Dark Sun game.

Well I suppose I did do some Known World in Expert and I did do a lot of the early modules so I suppose I did some Greyhawk.

But not really.

So yeah all this “oh the lore” stuff really does baffle me to be honest. I just can’t wrap my head around caring about it enough to get upset about it. Lore is disposable. Just like settings.

I mean good grief, there are more DnD settings out there than you could ever play. Why would I care what WotC says about kobolds?

 

[Parmandur]

I was passing on it because I'm not a Critical Role viewer but you have piqued my interest- is it really close to Nerath and the 4e points of light setting?

Absolutely. The Critical Role game started as a home campaign using 4E rules qnd a PoL campaign style. They switched to Pathfinder at some point, but kept the world and assumptions, and then to 5E, building the world bit by bit through play until Mercer realized people would want moreinformation on hisgame world and started developing it more. The 4E lore from the main core books, at least, applies down to the present incarnation: gods, cosmology, Dawn War, Primordial, rave lore, etc. Whi h doesn't end up being that radi silly different than 5E core assumptions, in practice, but it is all there.

 

[Mecheon]

As a Transformers fan... no that's is not at all how it is.
-There is a G1 Sunbow cartoon Abominus who appeared out of nowhere serving Quintessons (they were never implied to have been built by them, more like controlled, they serve Galvatron in later episodes).
-There is Marvel G1 comic Abominus, these Terrorcons came to Nebulos with Scorponok, and later to Earth.
-Then there is Transformers Prime - Beast Hunters Abominus, who according to a toy promo leaflet and CGI online games, were cloned from ancient Predacon CNA by Shockwave as modern Terrorcons. They never appeared in the actual show.

You forgot a few

• Later G1 stuff by Takara to advertise their release of CW Abominus confirmed the Quintessons made the Terrorcons, just like the Predacons and the Sharkticons
• IDW 2019 has Abominus as the first combiner. While not named, they refer to an abomination created by the Enigma of Combination and, well, its blatently him in shadow.
• Transformers Legends, the G1-based mobile game thing, just transposed the Prime origin of the Terrorcons onto the G1 characters. Also use the Prime Terrorcons as their bodies but, well, IDW had already done that anyway so that's just normal for them

All three are canon only in their respective, totally separate universes. Not "not at the same time". Marvel G1 and Sunbow G1 are not related at all. They are completely different continuities, even the origin of the Transformers is different in both.
It's basically like how on Toril, Halflings are jolly merry little folk, and on Athas, they are vicious desert nomad cannibals. Same species, different universe.

But that's the thing, these are compartimentalised bits and bobs canon to one particular instance, but not other parts. Legends is a perfect example of this, its half retellings of old G1 cartoons, half IDW stuff pushed in, and a few new things grabbed from other continuities, like grabbing the Prime origin story to them to fill a gap. Still all G1 universe but not all the same universe

RID is sometimes its own universe, othertimes it a future of Japanese G1 where some of the characters are co-living with Beast Wars 2 characters. Marvel G1 continuity doesn't work given the existence of the Earthforce comics which either require a lot of massaging to fit, or are their own continuity. Goldbug has two origin stories depending if you're in the US or Europe.

Stuff is compartmentalised, and its that we should focus on. The individual stories that come from such, not the big overarching thing.

 

[JEB]

Oh come the frak on. 4e has plenty of delightful lore. The Dawn War, the War of Winter, the reason why deities don't stomp around on the mortal plane, actually USING the Plane of Shadow/Shadowfell and (effectively inventing) the Feywild, the Arkhosia/Bael Turath wars, the Raven Queen and her whole thing, Bahamut's DIVINE ASTEROID ARK-SHIPS.

Right, the Nentir Vale/Dawn War cosmology is pretty cool, objectively. The problem is that they also made it and its tropes apply to older, established settings, resulting in changes that alienated some veteran fans. Which is why I wonder if things would have turned out better had they not done that, and instead made Nentir Vale core but just one of many supported cosmology options (like in 3E). Then, when the Realms returned in 4E, it could have continued to use either its own unique 3E cosmology, or gone back to the Great Wheel, and players would have felt old and new were equally supported. Might not have made a difference for 4E's success, might have made a lot of difference.

Absolutely. The Critical Role game started as a home campaign using 4E rules qnd a PoL campaign style. They switched to Pathfinder at some point, but kept the world and assumptions, and then to 5E, building the world bit by bit through play until Mercer realized people would want moreinformation on hisgame world and started developing it more. The 4E lore from the main core books, at least, applies down to the present incarnation: gods, cosmology, Dawn War, Primordial, rave lore, etc. Whi h doesn't end up being that radi silly different than 5E core assumptions, in practice, but it is all there.

It's kind of funny that the most successful current D&D thing, outside the game itself, is basically using the 4E cosmology. One would like to think it'd lead Wizards to give it a featured role again. (Unless, again, the "First World" is secretly just that...)

 

[see]

Might not have made a difference for 4E's success, might have made a lot of difference.

Given the entire approach to 4E involved not even trying to pay any attention to existing customers, I rather doubt a single decision like that would have helped much.

I mean, probably the single biggest screwup in the design of fourth edition was the designers failing to notice that a huge segment of D&D tables still didn't use minis and grids even after years of 3.x pushing them, and therefore designed an edition full of character and monster powers that relied heavily on grid positioning. A revision done by a team that completely isolated from how D&D was played in the wild was doomed from the beginning.

 

[Parmandur]

Right, the Nentir Vale/Dawn War cosmology is pretty cool, objectively. The problem is that they also made it and its tropes apply to older, established settings, resulting in changes that alienated some veteran fans. Which is why I wonder if things would have turned out better had they not done that, and instead made Nentir Vale core but just one of many supported cosmology options (like in 3E). Then, when the Realms returned in 4E, it could have continued to use either its own unique 3E cosmology, or gone back to the Great Wheel, and players would felt old and new were equally supported. Might not have made a difference for 4E's success, might have made a lot of difference.


It's kind of funny that the most successful current D&D thing, outside the game itself, is basically using the 4E cosmology. One would like to think it'd lead Wizards to give it a featured role again. (Unless, again, the "First World" is secretly just that...)

Well, I mean...no spoilers, but they just put out an Adventure set in Exandria (the Critical Role world) with deep ties to the Dawn War in the background...so, they kinda are?

 

[teitan]

I've pretty much had to ignore WotC's lore since 2009. I never knew how exhausting it was to pretend something doesn't exist until I saw 4th Ed's "reimagining" of D&D lore.

See I like the 4e lore and I’m an old grognard. I pick and choose though.

 

[teitan]

psssst

The Explorer's Guide to Wildemount already exists.

I know some people say it doesn't really count as Nerath per se...but it has all of the assumptions of the 4E Lore built in from the PHB & DMG.

Not really no. It just has the gods and from there with the Dawn war… otherwise It’s pretty different. What seems 4e is carried over to 5e from what I can tell. I never got the impression that the Dawn War was written out in 5e honestly. They just never addressed it and now seem to be leaning into a “multiple stories” model.

by not really I’m saying it’s not Nerath so the assumptions shouldn’t be implied. Especially Wildemount, grossly different and Tal’dorei is not really a Points of Light world like Nerath.

 

[teitan]

Fans can do that now.

They could do that at any time.