KotS/4PC Scaling Notes (Spoilers)

[Zephyrus]

I'll be running Keep on the Shadowfell this weekend for my D&D group. We've got only the 4 of us (3 players + GM) so its likely I'll be running a GMPC for the party (likely it'll be a cleric but I might do a warlord instead after having reviewed the powers first hand).

I'd like to see what people think of the proposed scaling changes I made and if people could offer suggestions, especially for the final encounter (the only one I wasn't quite sure how to scale while maintaining the design intent and integrity of the encounter, which was something I strove to preserve for all the encounters). I'd like to post them but am reluctant to do so as yet (perhaps I'll make it a word Doc and upload it so as to avoid spoilers being too problematic). I am not sure if its permissible to post scaling information for an entire adventure. Please advise.

edit: To add Spoilers to Subject line.

 

[Rabbitbait]

I'll only have two players. Eeep. So I plan to run with two GMPC's, and start with the adventure in the DM's guide that will apparently take the characters to second level. Hopefully that will be enough to make up for the overall party size of 4 instead of 5.

 

[Rechan]

The final encounter, I'd suggest lowering the Deathlock WIght's level by 2. Given that he's on a platform, damn that guy would be annoying to deal with.

Also, definitely lower Karalel's level.

 

[Zephyrus]

Okay, here are the proposed changes I'm thinking of making for running KotS with only 4 PC's. Generally speaking I think it scales down the difficulties without breaking the themes for the most part of each encounters.

Some encounters leaves more/most of the minions in favor of pulling tougher monsters as the impression I got was these encounters were more about contending with the large mob of creatures than on (or close to) 1-on-1 monster beat-downs (first side to run out of HP looses). In the encounters with lots of minions I'd suggest not bunching the minions up too much to avoid making theme easy targets for a burst/blast but otherwise run the tactics as written.

In the same vein some encounters I removed just minions. For these It seemed like it was more important to fight the various challenges the creatures presented. In these encounters their were usually minions left as well but simple not as many of them. In most of these cases I think the ratio of number of creatures vs number of PC's is still maintained mostly.

I look forward to hearing peoples comments and suggestions and weather or not you find this information useful for your own games you are/are-planning to run. See Attached for scaling notes.

 

[Graf]

Zeph.
Thanks, that saves time!

By far the easiest suggestion I heard was just raising party level to 2. PCs are a bit "buff-er" it's less work for the DM, and you have to tweak less.

Less-tweaking -> closer to the original.

[sblock=Specific comments]
A3, dropping 5 minions is a good idea if you don't have a controller, but a bad idea otherwise (unless, maybe if you have a non-fire breathing dragonborn).

1: Shame to remove the ratswarm in 1. Seemed like it was the most memerable part of the encounter.

16: does reducing the hit points of the hazards really help? This is really a scene where the economy of actions is an issue (to my mind anyway). Maybe saying that only two of the statues need to be disabled to stop the trap?

18: I was pretty excited to see a (mini) horde of vampires in a low level game (not that mechanically exciting but...). I'd prefer to keep them. Just a personal thing of course.

Great stuff!

[/sblock]

 

[Rechan]

[sblock]Another tip: Turn Irontooth from an elite to a regular. He's vicious.[/sblock]

 

[Zephyrus]

Thanks for the comments, their were different things that could have been done and i'll say that I pretty much agree with just about everything you said (I cant remember how to do spoiler boxes so I cant comment line by line). My main focus was to maintain the design intent of the encounters and being stuck with only my best guess. I'll be vague in my reply (untill someone tells me how to do spoilers).


Ref - A3: I agree with you, but that would be tailoring the adventure based on party composition. with 4 PC's you should still have the 4 basic roles covered. with 3 or less PC's running this adventure without customizing the encounters based on the party composition would be quite difficult and I feel a lot of the flavor of the adventure itself would be lost. Access to the new MM however could result in suitable alternatives.

Ref - 1: Something had to go, I agree, it ... *ahem* Bites *smirks* that I pulled it but it seemed the least risky removal.

Ref - 16: I debated leaving the encounter as-is. The adjustment assumes if the PC's choose the 'fight it out' method of problem solving.

Ref - 18: I agree, I debated with this and the final encounter. Without reducing the level of the main opponent, removing them seemed the best option. It actually under XP'd the encounter per PC from the original but I couldn't see any other way to leave em in.


I'm not sure about UPing hte level of the PC's by one. I think it might result (YMMV) in players having slightly too easy of time than intended. Again, I'm basing the changes on best-guess on the goals of the enconters in the adventure.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Level one PCs are "worth" 100 XP in encounter scaling.
Level 2 are 125
Level 3 are 150

So 4 second level characters are "worth" 500 xp just like 5 first level PCs. The math is pretty good, so I bet you'd find it works fine.

However, instead of 625 at level 2, you'd have 600 XP level 3 characters, and this level-up would occur an encounter or two later. You'd have 700XP worth of level 4 characters (if you even make it to level 4 by the final encounter, but you could make sure it happens) instead of 875. And the encounter is, what? 1350? Parties can pull off double their XP if they have all their resources and roll well, but it's pretty unlikely.

So while the 2nd level thing works at the beginning of KotS for four players, you'd still have to do some balancing by the end.

Fitz

 

[Graf]

I'm going to be running with 3 PCs. All more or less completely novices. I think they'll have to be 2nd just to have a chance.