KotS Difficulty Level?

[Baumi]

I just skimmed through Keep on the Shadowfeel and I am very impressed with the Encounters in it (very dynamic fights!), but I was shocked when I saw several encounters with 1000+ XP.

Especially A3:Kobold Lair seems very hard since you are still first level but have to take on 1250XP worth in kobolds. I remember a TPK in a testadventure that I ran with only a 600 XP group of Hobogoblins (4 players)....

Has anyone tried this fight already and can tell me (us) a bit more how it plays in practice and if my fear is unfounded?

 

[D'karr]

I just skimmed through Keep on the Shadowfeel and I am very impressed with the Encounters in it (very dynamic fights!), but I was shocked when I saw several encounters with 1000+ XP.

Especially A3:Kobold Lair seems very hard since you are still first level but have to take on 1250XP worth in kobolds. I remember a TPK in a testadventure that I ran with only a 600 XP group of Hobogoblins (4 players)....

Has anyone tried this fight already and can tell me (us) a bit more how it plays in practice and if my fear is unfounded?

[sblock]That encounter happens in phases. So you start fighting 10 minions, a slinger, a skirmisher and a dragonshield. Then the slinger goes running for reinforcements. The next battle can be tough as the creatures in the next area will dump into the first area in 3 rounds. But the majority of the first area are minions, so a well placed area effect will take care of those.

So yes, it can be tough but it is beatable, as long as the party always leaves itself a way to escape. And as long as they don't waste too much time with the first 2 parts of the encounter.

In any case kobolds kick ass.[/sblock]

 

[FitzTheRuke]

It's more like 2 fights without the time to get back your encounter powers. Tough enough that you'll use everything you got, and possible to lose SOMEONE if you're not careful, but beatable.

Keep in mind this adventure was co-written by Mike Mearls. He LOVES to kill PCs and gloats about having the first PC kill of all 4E. This adventure was definitely not written with the idea that the party will never lose anybody. It's almost certain that at least a few of the PCs will bite it in the last fight at the very least.

Fitz

 

[Boarstorm]

Yeah, that last fight... wooo... I'm scared of that fight.

To be honest, I know my players (bloodthirsty, tactless, evil, cusswords), and I'm scared of the "social encounter" in area 8. I already know how THAT will turn out.

 

[drjones]

I was wondering about the 'level up' assumptions, it seems like your choice of adventure hook might reduce the number of encounters they players hit before reaching the harder encounters. But I suppose the difference between level 1 and 2 is a lot smaller than in previous editions so maybe it won't matter that much if the PCs don't get all the xp?

 

[Baumi]

Thanks!

 

[PeterWeller]

I ran my group through it tonight. They were rolling terribly, so that was definitely a major factor. They made it to that encounter, and got slaughtered. They probably should have pulled back after clearing the outside. They were able to finish off the first group well enough, but when the reinforcements showed up, they were too depleted and got whittled away after a couple of rounds.

There were only four players in the group, and no one chose the cleric, which, in hindsight, put them at a serious disadvantage. They should have run, but I don't think they thought there was a chance of them dying. I'm a pull-my-punches kind of DM, but I wasn't doing that tonight; I wanted to see how tough combat could be, so I could see how much I should feel willing to fudge it when we get our real 4E campaign going.

Also, while I was running the kobolds to their fullest, my players took a bit to get a hang of all their options. Even then, they didn't have enough time to formulate a decent strategy before they were hit hard by that encounter. Taking a different route and engaging some of the other lesser encounters would have given them more time to mesh as a group and discover their strengths and weaknesses.

[sblock]
Honestly, it seems like you're better off mucking about in the first couple areas of the keep and leveling off of those before you tackle A3. A2 lets you wade through a swarm of janks, and after A1, you feel like an effing hard-ass. Momentum will lead you to want to dive right into A3, but even though it comes in waves, A3 is still a really tough fight for first levels. If I was to recommend the best course of action in the early stages of the module, it would be to check out the dragon grave, then explore the first few areas of the keep, then go after the kobold base. Also, don't be afraid to withdraw after clearing off A2. Now, if you follow any one of these recommendations, you are a bad person. This is more like off hand advice to DMs on how juicy they should make their hooks if they want their party to survive past the first few encounters. 4E characters have a lot more potential for awesome than 3E ones, but it takes some time for that to sink in with players used to 3E, at least in my experience.[/sblock]

 

[icarusfallz]

Well, mortality in PCs seems to be a big factor in the game design for 4E. They gave players much more powerful characters, and they gave (us) DMs lots of great new ways to kill them!

 

[doctorhook]

This PC mortality rate is reassuring, especially considering that, only a couple months ago, rumours abound (abounded? abund? were abound?) that 4E combat was going to be too soft on PCs, given the new hit point and damage rules.

Thumbs up!

 

[phil500]

so if a PC dies in keep how should you handle it?

i was thinking let the player bring in a char from DD XP.

should I give his char no xp though? or half what the current group has? or all?