KoTS, too easy?

[SlyFlourish]

I've been running KOTS for my group. They're one level ahead because I ran them through the intro adventure in the DMG and then a little side adventure. Lately they've been complaining that every battle has been too easy. They were level 2 when they did Irontooth and had no problem. Granted they had six characters and the players are all tactically very good.

Lately I've been adding an extra full monster (non-minion) to each fight. I made the hobgoblin torturer and Balgren the Fat both elites. I also threw in some harder zombies but nothing seems to stop my powerhouse players.

I'm wondering if anyone else had this problem? I don't want to start to customize the combats too much but I want the players to really face a good challenge. For the time being I've cut their experience in half to slow them down a little bit. I don't want them to be level 4 until after Kalarel.

Any thoughts, experiences, or suggestions?

 

[Klaus]

The adventure is built for 5 1st-level characters. You're running it for 6 2nd-level characters. Of course it's going to be easier.

Each 2nd-level PC can take on 125 XP worth of creatures. Each encounter in KotS has an XP value listed. Any encounter that is listed at less than 750 XP will be easy for the characters.

One way to bump the encounters up a bit would be to add a few minions to keep the PCs busy while the real threats get a shot or through in.

OTOH, if you don't change the encounters, the PCs will get less XP from each encounter, meaning they'll likely not be 4th level when they reach Kalarel.

If desired, you might skip the subtemple entirely to keep the PCs at 3rd level.

 

[malraux]

Playing through KotS with 4 1st level characters, I've had 1 TPK and one almost TPK (just 3/4 knocked out) and they've only hit the kobolds on the road and the Irontooth encounter. So I suspect the extra level and character help a bit.

 

[A. Malkov]

I was thinking on playing KOtS with four player, starting with Kobold Hall, but i wonder if this could make the battles too easy or "level-up" too much the characters.

 

[malraux]

I was thinking on playing KOtS with four player, starting with Kobold Hall, but i wonder if this could make the battles too easy or "level-up" too much the characters.

Well, 5*100 = 4*125. So in theory, that would be about right.

 

[vagabundo]

I've only got four PCs and I've bumped them to 2nd level.

They're about to go under the waterfall and fight Irontooth. I havent modified the encounters, but they seem challenged, I'll get more of a sense of it after they kill Irontooth...

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

I have 5 players about to hit the Irontooth encounter. They have done three encounters already. The party make up is

Warforge Fighter
Dragonborn Paladin
Dwarven Cleric
Halfling Rogue - From the pre-gen characters
Human Wizard - From the pre-gen characters

1. Kobold Attack on the way to Winterhaven
   
   PCs easily handled this encounter
   
   I was very happy with the challenge level of this encounter. It served as a nice intro to 4E combat.
   
   
2. Kobold Ambush
   
   Toughest fight thus far. The kobolds got a surprised round and made the most of it, positioning themselves nicely around the PC. The paladin and rogue both fell in the fight with the fighter and wizard bloodied.
   
   Again, I was happy with the challenge of this combat. It was more taxing on the PCs and forced them to worry about the other players instead of just the other enemies.
   
   
3. Kobolds outside the waterfall
   
   After the road ambush, the PCs were more cautious, scouting out the waterfall group and devising a great plan to handle them. They made short work of the group.
   
   The most interesting part of the encounter was the kobold who tried to flee inside the waterfall to warn Irontooth. He shouted in Draconic that Irontooth must be warned while at the same time using his gluepot to immobilize the dragonborn paladin who was closest to him. The dragonborn heard this and shouted to stop that kobold. The mad rush to stop him from getting inside was very exciting.
   
   I was disappointed with the challenge of this encounter, but that was due in part to PC planning. If the PCs had stumbled upon this encounter without planning ahead, I think its challenge level would have been fine. Instead, they came up with an excellent plan, executed it flawlessly, and trounced the opposition. Kudos to the PCs. They did a good job and got rewarded for their foresight and planning.

Overall, I find the difficulty to be appropriate. I reserve the right to change that opinion after the Irontooth encounter this week. The Kobold ambush really taxed them and I fear what Irontooth's will do

 

[renau1g]

I have 5 players about to hit the Irontooth encounter. They have done three encounters already. The party make up is

Warforge Fighter
Dragonborn Paladin
Dwarven Cleric
Halfling Rogue - From the pre-gen characters
Human Wizard - From the pre-gen characters

1. Kobold Attack on the way to Winterhaven
   
   PCs easily handled this encounter
   
   I was very happy with the challenge level of this encounter. It served as a nice intro to 4E combat.
   
   
2. Kobold Ambush
   
   Toughest fight thus far. The kobolds got a surprised round and made the most of it, positioning themselves nicely around the PC. The paladin and rogue both fell in the fight with the fighter and wizard bloodied.
   
   Again, I was happy with the challenge of this combat. It was more taxing on the PCs and forced them to worry about the other players instead of just the other enemies.
   

Overall, I find the difficulty to be appropriate. I reserve the right to change that opinion after the Irontooth encounter this week. The Kobold ambush really taxed them and I fear what Irontooth's will do

I've played through the two encounters above with the following PC's

1) Tiefling Paladin
2) Half-Elven Warlock (Infernal)
3) Elven Ranger - Two Weapon Fighter

So with only 3 PC's I was worried about the challenge levels, so I removed 1 minion from the first ambush (not enough I'm sure) and led to the ranger getting knocked into negative HP and having a tense moment as he tried to save vs. death as the other 2 weren't trained in Heal and weren't willing to risk the others death (who's rangers have a long death streak in my campaigns)

In contrast the same ranger spotted the ambush easily (rolled 29 on perception) and warned the others. They stopped early and the Paladin waited for the Dragonshields (I removed 1 of them) and the other two used ranged attacks to decimate the others (this fight the ranger rolled 5 20's during the fight... ). They had barely a scratch on them, but we'll see as they approach the waterfall (and I am going to add 1 PC to their group as he was absent last week).

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I've run Keep on the Shadowfell from beginning to end. We started it with the demo characters, and then built our own when we got our books and retconned the story so our new guys were there all along. We had a party of between six and nine characters (depending on attendance), and I added extra monsters/levels/elite status to every battle to get the same experience cost per character. Irontooth was tense, and burned through most of the party's dailies, but they handled it with everyone standing at the end(though people were knocked unconscious and healed four times). We were still using pregens at the time, though we had the Tiefling Warlord from the online content with us in addition to the Half-Elf Cleric giving extra healing. The best battle ended up being a battle of seven characters versus a level 5 Blue Slime. The battle with the Hobgoblin leaders was also exciting, as was the Gelatinous Cube which contained the entire party at one point. Kalarel ended up being slightly anticlimatic, as the Wizard took out three enemies with Sleep followed by a pile of failed saving throws and crits on helpless enemies.


I wouldn't call it easy or hard based on my experience. It seemed just about right, even with a huge party and having to tweak encounters.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

We're running with six 1st levelers. Just finished cleaning out the goblins ending with Balgren (which will bump us to second level for the next session), and I haven't felt especially stressed yet. Irontooth was tough, but no one even got knocked out. So far we've only had one person even drop below zero, and he got healed to non-bloodied the next round.

The extra character makes a big difference; the extra level probably less so.