Kraken Variants

[freyar]

That ought to do it!

It's going to need a lot of NA since the AC should be better than the Mystaran Kraken, I think. Unless you want to find some other kind of AC bonus (though nothing seems particularly appropriate).

 

[Cleon]

That ought to do it!

Updating Awnshegh Kraken Working Draft.

Fixed the wording from "A death cloud ink" to "Death cloud ink".

It's going to need a lot of NA since the AC should be better than the Mystaran Kraken, I think. Unless you want to find some other kind of AC bonus (though nothing seems particularly appropriate).

I don't necessarily agree it should have a higher AC than our Mystaran Kraken conversion. Mystara is gonzo world were PCs go from fighting kobolds to punching out immortals, but Birthright is more a "typical AD&D" level of power despite the divine powers available to Blooded characters.

While it should have a better AC than a regular Kraken advanced to Colossal, I'm not sure it should completely outshine its Mystaran cousin.

Let's see, the BECMI Kraken (i.e. the "Mystaran" version) has the same AC 0 as the tentacles of The Kraken, while our boy's body is AC -5 or five points better. Contrariwise a regular AD&D Kraken is AC 0 or 5, so the Awnshegh version's Armour Class is five points better than that too.

That said, I'm tempted to give The Kraken an insight or deflection bonus to its AC since (a) it's an Outsider of some unknown variety imbued with major blood-powers from Ye God of Eville and (b) I'd like its touch AC to be not entirely trivial.

How about we start with the NA of an SRD Colossal Kraken plus a Charisma-based deflection bonus?

That'd be:

Armor Class #1: 29 (– 8 size, +1 Dex, +19 natural, +7 deflection), touch 10, flat-footed 28

I'd be inclined to bump that up a point to a nice round number by adding one to the NA:

Armor Class #2: 30 (– 8 size, +1 Dex, +20 natural, +7 deflection), touch 10, flat-footed 29

That'd do me, being nicely intermediate between a regular SRD Kraken's AC 20 and our Mystaran Epic version's AC 40.

I might be persuadable to go up to AC 35 tops by bumping up the natural armour bonus further…

Armor Class #3: 35 (– 8 size, +1 Dex, +25 natural, +7 deflection), touch 10, flat-footed 34

…but it'd require some fine persuasion rolls!

 

[freyar]

The main argument for pushing the AC up to 40 like the Mystaran version is just the fact that The Kraken actually has an AC 5 points better in the original text! What if we started with your second version #2 (version #3?) and also added an insight bonus? If you like, we could classify the deflection bonus as profane, since it's some kind of exemplar of evil:

AC #4: 40 (– 8 size, +1 Dex, +25 natural, +7 deflection/profane, +5 insight), touch 15, flat-footed 39
(I'm not really certain that it should get the insight bonus when flat-footed since that just seems wrong, but I also don't see in the rules where it wouldn't.)

Did I sell you on that?

 

[Cleon]

The main argument for pushing the AC up to 40 like the Mystaran version is just the fact that The Kraken actually has an AC 5 points better in the original text! What if we started with your second version #2 (version #3?) and also added an insight bonus? If you like, we could classify the deflection bonus as profane, since it's some kind of exemplar of evil:

AC #4: 40 (– 8 size, +1 Dex, +25 natural, +7 deflection/profane, +5 insight), touch 15, flat-footed 39
(I'm not really certain that it should get the insight bonus when flat-footed since that just seems wrong, but I also don't see in the rules where it wouldn't.)

Did I sell you on that?

Yes, but a regular 3E Kraken is AC 20, so that's twenty points better, not five!

I'm fine with AC 30 (ten points higher) and would be willing to consider AC 35 (fifteen points) if you twist me arm, but AC 40 just feels to high.

Have no objection to throwing an insight bonus in as part of the AC 30 (or 35) if you like. Do insight bonuses normally apply to flat-footed Armor Class? If the target isn't ready to react how can they use their insight to avoid the attack. Have to check…

Hmm, all the SRD flat-footed entry says is "You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed" so it's unclear. I guess if it doesn't say it's included we can keep it.

So my counter-proposal is:

Armor Class #5: 30 (–8 size, +1 Dex, +15 natural, +5 insight, +7 deflection), touch 15, flat-footed 29

Armor Class #6: 35 (–8 size, +1 Dex, +20 natural, +5 insight, +7 deflection), touch 15, flat-footed 34

Oh, I'd better correct that "#2" that should be "#3"!

 

[freyar]

It seems like the real problem is that we gave the Mystaran kraken too much AC compared to a normal SRD kraken! I think our best compromise on AC is #6!

Thoughts on the speed? It seems like they're 3x faster than a standard kraken and only a little faster with the jet. It would be something like Swim 60 ft with a jet speed of 320 ft, just using the 2E ratio.

 

[Cleon]

It seems like the real problem is that we gave the Mystaran kraken too much AC compared to a normal SRD kraken! I think our best compromise on AC is #6!

Well the AC was bit the only aspect of the Mystaran Kraken that was a bit too much compared to the regular version! We were just aiming for something CR-appropriate.

Anyhow, let's use #6 then.

Updating Awnshegh Kraken Working Draft.

Thoughts on the speed? It seems like they're 3x faster than a standard kraken and only a little faster with the jet. It would be something like Swim 60 ft with a jet speed of 320 ft, just using the 2E ratio.

Well AD&D Kraken have Swim 3 or the equivalent of a 10 ft. speed in 3E. The SRD Kraken's 20 ft. matches AD&D speed 6 or 9, so it's already got a speed boost to match the Awnshegh version.

Still, I reckon it ought to be faster so how about we just slap another 10 ft.?

I'd make the Jet multiplier ×6 double move rather than the SRD Kraken's ×7. It'll still end up faster and it's a better homage to the original's Jet 21 & Jet 24.

Speed: Swim 30 ft.

Jet (Ex): The Kraken can jet backward once per round as a full-round action, at a speed of 360 feet. It must move in a straight line, but does not provoke attacks of opportunity while jetting.

Looks like it's the regeneration/fast healing question next.

Since the original ability does not require special means to kill its possessor, it's not a "kill it with fire" style autohealing ability so is Fast Healing in 3E terms, but the Major Regeneration version the Kraken possesses does enable the possessor to regrow lost body parts "within weeks" (30 days minus 1 day per Constitution point).

The original stats don't give it a Constitution score or Hit Dice, just 220 hit points and saves as "Fighter 24", but I can make a couple of guesstimates…

Guesstimate 1: 220 hp and 24 HD standard monster => Hit Dice 24d8+112 => 4⅔ hit points per Hit Die => Con 19.
Guesstimate 2: 220 hp and 24th level fighter => Hit Dice 9d10+45 base plus 125½ bonus => 13.944 hit points per Hit Die. Which is way over the +7 of AD&D's maximum score of Constitution 25. The table goes from +6 at Con 21 to +7 at Con 24, so if the progression was consistent that'd be Con 45!
Guesstimate 3: 220 hp and 24th level fighter who rolled max hp => Hit Dice 9d10+45 base (90+45) plus bonus => Hit Points 135 base plus 85 bonus => 9.444 hit points per Hit Die. Still way over Con 25, but less extreme - maybe Con 30?

Oh well, that didn't work very well!

Let's just say it had the equivalent of Con 20 or so and regrew organs in 10 days or so.
That means he'll regrow severed limbs much faster than the 1d10+10 days of an SRD Kraken.

How about:

Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., fast healing 5 [regrows body parts], jet [360 ft.], low-light vision, spell resistance #, spell-like abilities

Combat
Tactics.

Krakens strike their opponents with their barbed tentacles, then grab and crush with their arms or drag victims into their huge jaws. An opponent can make sunder attempts against a kraken’s tentacles or arms as if they were weapons. The kraken’s tentacles have 40 hit points, and its arms have 20 hit points. If a kraken is currently grappling a target with one tentacle or arm, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the sunder attempt. Severing a kraken's tentacle or arm deals damage to the kraken equal to half the limb’s full normal hit points. A kraken usually withdraws from combat if it loses both tentacles or three of its arms. The kraken regrows severed limbs in 1d4+4 days.

Fast Healing (Ex): The kraken's fast healing can regrow lost portions of its body provided it can survive their removal. Unlike regeneration, it can not reattach severed body parts by holding them to the stump. Regrowing lost organs or body parts takes 5 to 15 days (2d6+3), depending on the severity of the injury; severed limbs can regrow entirely in 5 to 8 days (1d4+4).

 

[freyar]

Your speed suggestion and the modified fast healing both seem good to me.

Triple standard treasure and no advancement seem right to me.

Start with the 7 kraken feats, I guess. Do you want to add some epic ones among the next 7?

 

[Cleon]

Your speed suggestion and the modified fast healing both seem good to me.

Works for me!

Updating Awnshegh Kraken Working Draft.

Start with the 7 kraken feats, I guess. Do you want to add some epic ones among the next 7?

We could do the feats next if yoou'd like, but that about the spell resistance and spell-like abilities?

I'm thinking maybe spell resistance 30, since it's CR is going to be around 20. That;s not quite as high as the SR 32 of the CR 20 Tarrasque and Pit Fiend but better than the Balor's SR 28.

For SLAs, the original monster didn't have any and it's described as acting "like nothing more than an animal" so maybe it doesn't have the standard Kraken's SLAs, or at least SLAs that are obvious to observers? Of course, observers don't normally survive encounters with The Kraken so maybe nobody's lived to say they saw it use dominate animal or whatever?

Or we can give it a few SLAs appropriate for a fiendish creature associated with the Plane of Water. Maybe a mix up of the SLAs of a Half-Fiend and a Half-Water Elemental?

Level/HD	Half-Fiend SLAs	Half-Water SLAs
1–2	Darkness 3/day	Obscuring mist
3–4	Desecrate	Fog cloud
5–6	Unholy blight	Water breathing
7–8	Poison 3/day	Control water
9–10	Contagion	Ice storm
11–12	Blasphemy	Cone of cold
13–14	Unholy aura 3/day, unhallow	Acid fog
15–16	Horrid wilting	Horrid wilting
17–18	Summon monster IX (fiends only)	Elemental swarm (water only)
19–20	Destruction	Plane shift

I'd skip the blasphemy, desecrate and unhallow and the summoning & plane shifting abilities seem inappropriate, and I think I'd replace one of them with control weather as that's a classic Kraken shtick.

Hmm, I'd be inclined to slap widened on most of The Kraken's area-effect SLAs otherwise they'll cover a piddling breadth compared to its Space.

Don't care for ice storm, it feels a bit too obvious. The various fog/poison/acid abilities could be interpreted as extensions of its inky death cloud but while it lives in a cold climate there's no mention of frost powers! Maybe replace it with the SRD Kraken's dominate animal and/or resist energy?

So something like:

darkness (3/day)
widened fog cloud (3/day)
poison (3/day)
control water (3/day)
ice storm (1/day); or dominate animal (aquatic only)(1/day) plus resist energy (3/day)
contagion (1/day)
control weather (2/day)[3 mile radius druid version?]
widened acid fog (1/day)
horrid wilting (1/day)
destruction (1/day)

CL 20th; DCs are Charisma-based.

 

[freyar]

SR 30 is good.

I hadn't been thinking about SLAs since the original doesn't have them, but you're right that it seems an Int 19 kraken should have some. And we should deal with those before feats. Maybe it shouldn't be as many SLAs as a regular kraken, though. I'm also not sure about widening some of them --- I didn't think you could use a Widen Spell metamagic feat on an SLA. You can't use Quicken Spell on an SLA; you have to use Quicken SLA. What if we just give it control water, control weather, and either destruction or horrid wilting?

 

[Cleon]

SR 30 is good.

Updating Awnshegh Kraken Working Draft.

I hadn't been thinking about SLAs since the original doesn't have them, but you're right that it seems an Int 19 kraken should have some. And we should deal with those before feats. Maybe it shouldn't be as many SLAs as a regular kraken, though. I'm also not sure about widening some of them --- I didn't think you could use a Widen Spell metamagic feat on an SLA. You can't use Quicken Spell on an SLA; you have to use Quicken SLA. What if we just give it control water, control weather, and either destruction or horrid wilting?

That'd be acceptable, although I like the idea of giving it control winds as well since standard Kraken have that SLA. I think I prefer horrid wilting over destruction, so are we talking:

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): 3/day—control water (DC 19); 1/day—control winds (DC 20), control weather, horrid wilting (DC 23). Caster level 20th. The save DC is Charisma-based.

I'd be fine with making the control water 1/day like a regular Kraken's, but this tentacled chappie might be from the Elemental Plane of Water so could be more adept at waterbending than a run of the mill Kraken.

 

[freyar]

I like these proposed SLAs. Sounds good.

Take the standard kraken skills minus Hide? That would be Concentration, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Know (geography), Know (nature), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, UMD. Actually, maybe since it's an Outsider, we could swam the Knowledge skills to (the planes) and (arcana). What do you think?

 

[Cleon]

I like these proposed SLAs. Sounds good.

Updating Awnshegh Kraken Working Draft.

Take the standard kraken skills minus Hide? That would be Concentration, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Know (geography), Know (nature), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, UMD. Actually, maybe since it's an Outsider, we could swam the Knowledge skills to (the planes) and (arcana). What do you think?

Would rather keep the Hide and just not have them maxed-out in everything so the SPs match up. We've got a huge pile of Skill Points to assign, so there's plenty to spread around.

If we were to cut a skill, I'd elect Diplomacy rather than Hide, maybe followed by Sense Motive, since the Awnshegh Kraken appears to be a loner who doesn't enjoy lording it over slaves like a regular Kraken. There are mentions of Kraken-worshipping cults on "his" island, but no mention of The Kraken actually interacting with them.

I like the Know (arcane) and Know (the planes) additions.

Besides, the SRD Kraken only has a few of its skills maxed out. A standard Kraken has the following skill line:

Skills: Concentration +21, Diplomacy +7, Hide +0, Intimidate +16, Knowledge (geography) +17, Knowledge (nature) +16, Listen +30, Search +28, Sense Motive +17, Spot +30, Survival +5 (+7 following tracks), Swim +20, Use Magic Device +16

Which means its Skill Ranks are:

Concentration 12, Diplomacy 0, Hide 12, Intimidate 11, Know (geography) 12, Know (nature) 11, Listen 23, Search 23, Sense Motive 12, Spot 23, Survival 0 (+2), Swim 0, Use Magic Device 11

Incidentally, that adds up to 150 SPs, so it's 11 skill points short! A 20 Hit Dice 21 Intelligence Magical Beast should have 161 SPs (20+3 × 2+5 = 23 × 7 = 161). The original creators might have meant to give it another 11 SP skill and forgot.

Nevermind though, that doesn't matter for our purposes. Note that it only has maxed-out ranks in Listen, Search and Spot, zero ranks in Diplomacy, Survival and Swim, and roughly half-max in the remainder.

For the sake of argument, let's give our boy the skills discussed above plus another skill to represent the missing 11 SPs of the SRD Kraken. If we maxed out the skills and then trimmed the points down so its SPs total is correct, we could have the following Skill Rank distribution:

Concentration 33, Diplomacy 33, Hide 37, Intimidate 33, Know (arcane) 33, Know (geography) 33, Know (nature) 33, Know (the planes) 33, Listen 43, Search 43, Sense Motive 33, Spot 43, Survival 20 (+2), Swim 0, Use Magic Device 33, MISSING SKILL 33

That adds up to 516 Skill Points, which is the target we're aiming for.

Skill Points = 40HD+3 × 8outsider+4int = 43 × 12 = 516 SPs

For the missing skill, I'm thinking maybe Escape Artist? It is rather octopus-looking in its illustration and Octopodes have that skill in 3E.

I'd also be happy lowering some of its non-essential skills(i.e. Diplomacy or the Knowledge skills) to give it some higher numbers in other skills (Hide, Intimidate, Sense Motive or UMD?) or add an extra skill or two (Bluff, Spellcraft, Tumble?).

 

[freyar]

What you have for the skills looks fine, including Escape Artist for the last skill. I don't mind stealing a few points for Intimidate, Sense Motive, or UMD if you like, though I don't really see Hide as really fitting it's personality enough that we need ti give it even more skill points.

 

[Cleon]

What you have for the skills looks fine, including Escape Artist for the last skill. I don't mind stealing a few points for Intimidate, Sense Motive, or UMD if you like, though I don't really see Hide as really fitting it's personality enough that we need ti give it even more skill points.

Okay, let's just keep the SP distribution above and give it Escape Artist.

So that's:

Skill Ranks: Concentration 33, Diplomacy 33, Hide 37, Intimidate 33, Know (arcane) 33, Know (geography) 33, Know (nature) 33, Know (the planes) 33, Listen 43, Search 43, Sense Motive 33, Spot 43, Survival 20 (+2), Swim 0, Use Magic Device 33, MISSING SKILL [Escape Artist] 33

Which'll result in:

Skill Mods: Concentration 33+11Con, Diplomacy 33+7Cha+4synergy, Escape Artist 33+1Dex, Hide 37+1Dex–16siz, Intimidate 33+7Cha, Knowledge (arcane) 33+4Int, Knowledge (geography) 33+4Int, Knowledge (nature) 33+4Int, Knowledge (the planes) 33+4Int, Listen 43+5Wis, Search 43+4Int, Sense Motive 33+5Wis, Spot 43+5Wis, Survival 20+5Wis (+4synergy aboveground or on other planes and when finding way, avoiding natural hazards, or following tracks), Swim 0+18Str+8racial, Use Magic Device 33+7Cha, Use Rope 0+1Dex (+4synergy to bind)

I'm inclined to leave out the Use Rope synergy from the final Skills - although the mental image of The Kraken tying someone up is hilarious.

Skills: Concentration +44, Diplomacy +44, Escape Artist +34, Hide +22, Intimidate +40, Knowledge (arcane) +37, Knowledge (geography) +37, Knowledge (nature) +37, Knowledge (the planes) +37, Listen +48, Search +47, Sense Motive +38, Spot +48, Survival +25 (+29 aboveground or on other planes and when finding way, avoiding natural hazard, or following tracks), Swim +26, Use Magic Device +40 [, Use Rope +1 (+5 to bind)]

Updating Awnshegh Kraken Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

But what if it needs to tie up a prisoner to leave in its lair? We have to leave in the synergy bonus just for that.

Feats: want to keep all of the SRD kraken ones? That would be Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Imp Crit (tentacle), Imp Init, Imp Trip, Iron Will for a start. I think I could see dropping Imp Trip if we can find anything better.

 

[Cleon]

But what if it needs to tie up a prisoner to leave in its lair? We have to leave in the synergy bonus just for that.

Very well…

Updating Awnshegh Kraken Working Draft.

Feats: want to keep all of the SRD kraken ones? That would be Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Imp Crit (tentacle), Imp Init, Imp Trip, Iron Will for a start. I think I could see dropping Imp Trip if we can find anything better.

I don't see much point keeping the Alertness or Improved Trip, but the other ones are fine.

 

[freyar]

If we drop those two, that leaves 5, so we have a lot to play with. Want to take the Devastating Critical (tentacle) chain? That adds Cleave, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (tentacle), Overwhelming Critical (tentacle), and Devastating Critical (tentacle), so we only need to find 3 more after that. And it feels about right flavor-wise. Multiattack seems like a no-brainer. Maybe Imp Multiattack too. For the last one, we could go with Epic Reflexes or Empower/Quicken SLA. Any thoughts?

 

[Cleon]

If we drop those two, that leaves 5, so we have a lot to play with. Want to take the Devastating Critical (tentacle) chain? That adds Cleave, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (tentacle), Overwhelming Critical (tentacle), and Devastating Critical (tentacle), so we only need to find 3 more after that. And it feels about right flavor-wise. Multiattack seems like a no-brainer. Maybe Imp Multiattack too. For the last one, we could go with Epic Reflexes or Empower/Quicken SLA. Any thoughts?

I have no particular objection to starting out with the regular Kraken's feats, and I can see circumstances Improved Trip would be useful, it's Alertness that seems the most pointless of them.

If we spread out the remaining feats in an inefficient manner it would be easy to eat up the remaining nine or ten feats. Giving it Weapon Focus and Improved Critical with its tentacles, arms & bite would cover six feats, toss in Multiattack and Improved Multiattack and Cleave/Great Cleave would do that.

Not keen on WF & IC for all its atacks though, just Weapon Focus (tentacles) and Improved Critical (bite, tentacles) would be fine.

If you want to use Epic Feats for this conversion I'd go for Epic Prowess rather than Weapon Focus as that applies to ALL the Kraken's attacks, assuming you feel the need for increasing its attacks even higher than +50. Dire Charge is a no-brainer and Superior Initiative would be very handy.

As for Devastating Critical, do we really want to give it DC 48 murder tentacles? That's a way higher Fort DC than its Death Cloud, rendering its killer ink a secondary threat.

Boosting its Ref saves would seem useful too.

How about:

Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Dire Charge, Improved Critical (bite, tentacle), Imp Initiative, Improved Multiattack, Improved Trip, Iron Will, Multiattack, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Superior Initiative

I'd be happy swapping the Improved Trip and Superior Initiative for something else that tickles your fancy (or tickles your anything else!).

Dire Charge is the main feat Epic melee monsters really need.

 

[freyar]

Yes, those feats will work!

CR: as a melee opponent these are not as strong as the Mystaran kraken but do have SLAs to compensate some. Low 20s maybe?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, those feats will work!

Updating Awnshegh Kraken Working Draft.

CR: as a melee opponent these are not as strong as the Mystaran kraken but do have SLAs to compensate some. Low 20s maybe?

Well let's see, compared to the SRD Tarrasque our boy deals more damage (average damage if everything hits is 176 vs 112.5 for Big T) and has that really deadly ink.

Protection-wise, The Kraken has the same AC and better Will saves, but HP (620 vs 858) and its defensive powers are weaker. The T's regeneration especially is way better than K's fast-healing!

That would argue for CR 20 or so, but that feels a bit weak. Maybe the Tarrasque was deliberarely under-CRd like a Dragon?

Alternatively, RAW says taking a CR 12 Kraken and advancing it to 40 HD is +9 CR, which makes CR 21, then add on another +2 for those nasty extra abilities for 23.

That seems better. Would be willing to go CR 22 or 24 if you'd prefer but wouldn't go outside those bounds.