Kraken Variants

Cleon

Legend
I'm wondering whether I should capitalize the "The" in its name, so it's always "The Kraken" to emphasize its singularity.

Like Bruce Wayne's alter-ego is often referred to as The Batman or a certain well known luchador is called El Santo.

For what it's worth, the original Blood Enemies writeup uses lowercase "the Kraken" but that doesn't seem very special!
 

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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Let's capitalize the "The."

I like your revisions for the Death Cloud and Inky Doom. Let's go with your second option in the blue text. I'm also ok with making the secondary damage for the Death Cloud (treating it as a poison) death, as long as we also make it a death effect that can be warded off by appropriate magic.

As for curing Inky Doom, borrow this from Mummy Rot?
"A character attempting to cast any conjuration (healing) spell on a creature afflicted with Inky Doom must succeed on a DC X caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the afflicted character.

To eliminate Inky Doom, the curse must first be broken with break enchantment or remove curse (requiring a DC X caster level check for either spell), after which a caster level check is no longer necessary to cast healing spells on the victim, and the Inky Doom can be magically cured as any normal disease."
 

Cleon

Legend
Let's capitalize the "The."

I'll get started on That!

I like your revisions for the Death Cloud and Inky Doom. Let's go with your second option in the blue text. I'm also ok with making the secondary damage for the Death Cloud (treating it as a poison) death, as long as we also make it a death effect that can be warded off by appropriate magic.

Making it a Death Effect is a good idea.

As for curing Inky Doom, borrow this from Mummy Rot?
"A character attempting to cast any conjuration (healing) spell on a creature afflicted with Inky Doom must succeed on a DC X caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the afflicted character.

To eliminate Inky Doom, the curse must first be broken with break enchantment or remove curse (requiring a DC X caster level check for either spell), after which a caster level check is no longer necessary to cast healing spells on the victim, and the Inky Doom can be magically cured as any normal disease."

Yes, that's pretty much what I was thinking of doing. We'll need to decide on a DC for the caster level checks but the rest is pretty straightforward. Well, I suppose death ward might be able to eliminate inky doom as well if it's a magical death effect too. I guess we could require a CL check to block the "or die" bit then?

Revision:

Death Cloud (Su): Once every 1d4+1 rounds, The Kraken can squirt a cloud of jet-black ink over a 120-ft. spread as a swift action. The cloud provides total concealment (creatures within the cloud are considered to be in darkness) and is charged with supernatural venom. The first time a living creature contacts this venomous ink they must succeed at a DC 37 Fortitude save or take 3d6 Constitution damage and contract Inky Doom (see below). One minute after contact, the creature must succeed at a second DC 37 Fortitude save or die, although this can be resisted by abilities that protect against magical death effects such as death ward [(requiring a successful DC ## caster level check to prevent death)]. Death cloud ink loses its harmful effects 1d4+1 rounds after being emitted by The Kraken.

Inky Doom (Su): Supernatural disease—contact, Fortitude DC 37, incubation period 1 day; damage 1 Con drain.

Unlike normal diseases, inky doom continues until the victim reaches Constitution 0 (and dies) or is cured as described below.

A death cloud is a powerful curse, not a natural disease or poison. A character attempting to cast any conjuration (healing) spell on a creature afflicted by inky doom must succeed on a DC [20 like a Mummy or increase to 25 or 30?] caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the afflicted character.

To eliminate inky doom, the curse must first be broken with break enchantment, [death ward?] or remove curse (requiring a DC [20, 25 or 30?] caster level check for the spell), after which a caster level check is no longer necessary to cast healing spells on the victim, and the inky doom can be magically cured as any normal disease.

An afflicted creature who dies of inky doom melts into black slime that evaporates into nothing at the first breeze.

The save DCs are Charisma-based.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I can go for that, including the red bracketed text. How about DC 25? Shouldn't we say specifically that these are death effects?
 

Cleon

Legend
I can go for that, including the red bracketed text. How about DC 25? Shouldn't we say specifically that these are death effects?

So rephase "or die, although this can be resisted by abilities that protect against magical death effects such as death ward" to "or die. Death cloud is a magical death effect, its victims will not die from failing the second Fort save if they are protected by death ward or a similar effect."

Do you want to resphase "Death cloud is a powerful curse," to "Inky doom is a slow but powerful death effect," - we should change that "A death cloud" to "Inky doom" anyway.

I am concerned about the high DC of the initial exposure's death effect since the unfortunates who encountered the original monster would have a considerably better chance of surviving. Under 2E AD&D rules even a 0-level sailor has a 75% chance of surviving as their Death Magic is 16+. Our hypothetical sailor would need a +17 Fort save to have any chance of making a DC 37 save, and if they had +18 there's an 81% chance of failing both saves and dying.

I guess we could arbitrarily give the Death Cloud's second Fort save (or both of them) a lower DC, maybe 25 to match the remove DC? That's the equivalent to the DC of an 8th level spell cast by a sorcerer with the Kraken's 24 Charisma, which is still fairly respectable.

That way some of the tougher sailors who encounter The Kraken might survive, since a +5 Fort save isn't impossible for lowish level NPC (a 1st level warrior with Con 16-17 can hit that).

Alternatively, we could have the Death Cloud's secondary effect just do Con damage as well, then the Random Dice Gods will give a chance of survival just by rolling very low. Maybe 1d10 Con for the initial damage and 2d10 Con for the secondary? That's nasty but potentially survivable.

If we do that, we'd need to chance the death effect proviso to, say "Death cloud is a magical death effect and the damage it causes can be prevented or reduced by abilities that resist death effects, such as the death ward spell."

Even more alternatively, we could make it an arbitrary Constitution check rather than a Fortitude saving throw (like Suffocation), so the victim's level is relatively unimportant. A DC 20 Constitution check covers a way wider level spectrum than a DC 20 Fort save.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Let's leave the death effect descriptor out of Inky Doom I guess. We could just change the secondary damage line to "One minute after contact, the creature must succeed at a second DC 37 Fortitude save or die; this is a death effect."

I think I'd probably rather switch to Con damage than change the save DC. (Then we can drop the death effect.) Or we could go with a Con check. I'm certainly ok with reducing the Inky Doom CL check DC. What if we go with 1d10/2d10 Con damage or 1d10 Con drain/2d10 Con damage?
 

Cleon

Legend
Let's leave the death effect descriptor out of Inky Doom I guess. We could just change the secondary damage line to "One minute after contact, the creature must succeed at a second DC 37 Fortitude save or die; this is a death effect."

I think I'd probably rather switch to Con damage than change the save DC. (Then we can drop the death effect.) Or we could go with a Con check. I'm certainly ok with reducing the Inky Doom CL check DC. What if we go with 1d10/2d10 Con damage or 1d10 Con drain/2d10 Con damage?

Let's just change the "instant death" then.

Hmm, I quite like the drain/damage option.

I'm certainly ok with reducing the Inky Doom CL check DC.

I don't recall proposing that in the last few posts, the only mention of the CL DC used the "average value" of 25.

Anyhow, time for a revision!

Death Cloud (Su): Once every 1d4+1 rounds, The Kraken can squirt a cloud of jet-black ink over a 120-ft. spread as a swift action. The cloud provides total concealment (creatures within the cloud are considered to be in darkness) and is charged with supernatural venom. The first time a living creature contacts this venomous ink they must succeed at a DC 37 Fortitude save or take 1d10 Constitution drain and contract Inky Doom (see below). One minute after contact, the creature must succeed at a second DC 37 Fortitude save or take an additional 2d10 Constitution damage. Death cloud ink loses its harmful effects 1d4+1 rounds after being emitted by The Kraken.

Inky Doom (Su): Supernatural disease—contact, Fortitude DC 37, incubation period 1 day; damage 1 Con drain.

Unlike normal diseases, inky doom continues until the victim reaches Constitution 0 (and dies) or is cured as described below.

Inky doom is a powerful curse, not a natural disease or poison. A character attempting to cast any conjuration (healing) spell on a creature afflicted by inky doom must succeed on a DC 25 caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the afflicted character.

To eliminate inky doom, the curse must first be broken with break enchantment, death ward or remove curse (requiring a DC 25 caster level check for the spell), after which a caster level check is no longer necessary to cast healing spells on the victim, and the inky doom can be magically cured as any normal disease.

An afflicted creature who dies of inky doom melts into black slime that evaporates into nothing at the first breeze.

The save DCs are Charisma-based.
 

Cleon

Legend
I still like the idea of it being a magical death effect as well as or instead of a poison and think we should include it somehow.

Something like adding "Death cloud is a magical death effect not a poison, abilities such as death ward will block all damage from a death cloud if they succeed at a DC 25 caster level check (roll once per cloud)."
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I no longer remember what I was thinking about with the Inky Doom CL DC! Hmmmm....

I like the revised Death Cloud. I am also happy to make the Death Cloud a death effect, but I'd like it to remain a poison. Can we word it something like "Death cloud ink is a supernatural poison and a magical death effect; abilities such as death ward will block all damage from a death cloud if they succeed at a DC 25 caster level check (roll once per cloud)." ?
 

Cleon

Legend
I no longer remember what I was thinking about with the Inky Doom CL DC! Hmmmm....

I like the revised Death Cloud. I am also happy to make the Death Cloud a death effect, but I'd like it to remain a poison. Can we word it something like "Death cloud ink is a supernatural poison and a magical death effect; abilities such as death ward will block all damage from a death cloud if they succeed at a DC 25 caster level check (roll once per cloud)." ?

How about:

A death cloud ink is both a supernatural poison and a magical death effect; a creature immune to death effects cannot be harmed by it, and abilities such as death ward will block all damage from a death cloud if they succeed at a DC 25 caster level check (roll once per cloud). Abilities that grant saving throw bonuses against poison or death attacks both apply to saving throws against a death cloud. A creature immune to poison but subject to death effects can be harmed by a death cloud, but whenever they attempt to save against the cloud they roll the saving throw twice and picks the best result.
 

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