D&D General Kratos, God of War, CR 32, 5th Edition stats

[Stalker0]

To me the real power of this build is the Axe throw. I can throw an axe and petrify a target with a DC 27 con save, then either just kill him with crits, or use my finishing blow and autokill them. So you can very easily take out CR 20-25s in 1 round unless they have petrify immunity (which many things do not). That's pretty damn epic.

How does it work with the recall, does the person the axe is embedded in take the 1 handed axe attack when you recall the axe?

 

[Weiley31]

Damn: Don't let Kratos score a Crit while he has 4 uses of Legendary Actions available.
I don't mean this as a negative. More of a "your gonna have a baaaaad day once he crits on ya."

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Stalker0!

To me the real power of this build is the Axe throw. I can throw an axe and petrify a target with a DC 27 con save, then either just kill him with crits, or use my finishing blow and autokill them. So you can very easily take out CR 20-25s in 1 round unless they have petrify immunity (which many things do not). That's pretty damn epic.

Well remember that Legendary Resistance would give a monster (or deity) immunity from this (until they depleted their uses of Legendary Resistance.

How does it work with the recall, does the person the axe is embedded in take the 1 handed axe attack when you recall the axe?

Not exactly.

In the game (from which this is based) 3 possibilities occur.

1. Kratos throws the axe (1 handed), it hits the target (dealing damage) then returns to Kratos hand potentially hitting other targets between the original target and Kratos (the axe deviates up to 20% left or right on the returning arc to hit possible targets). If no one is between Kratos and the target, the axe just returns without costing another attack.

2. Kratos throws the axe (1 handed) using it to trip an opponent, the axe carries on past that tripped opponent some distance and then comes back to Kratos. Again, potentially arc'ing 20% to hit targets on the returning arc.

3. Kratos throws the axe (2 handed), it embeds in an opponent and stays there, freezing them as long as the axe stays embedded. Kratos can recall the axe at any time (counting as an attack).

I didn't really have enough space on the page to go into minute detail, but it should work as above (as best as I can figure it).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello there Weiley31!

Damn: Don't let Kratos score a Crit while he has 4 uses of Legendary Actions available.
I don't mean this as a negative. More of a "your gonna have a baaaaad day once he crits on ya."

Haha! Yes indeed. He is a god of strength (and war) so he just rips enemies apart.

I think I was in error for the Elemental Wrath though - it should be - Legendary Action Cost = Spell Level (ie. 1-5).

As regards Kratos CR 32, that means (unless your players want to get crushed) he is probably not a suitable opponent for a PCs less than CR 20 (Quasi-deity Rank). NB. Epic Tier PCs are individually CR 12 (four epic tier PCs are collectively CR 24*)

*when we convert PCs to CR to make balancing the Encounters quick and simple. I believe I have managed to get Challenge Rating functional again at high/epic/immortal level.

 

[Quartz]

A modest suggestion: for Legendary Strength, just say that Kratos automatically succeeds on any Strength check, no matter what is tried.

You might limit automatic success to non-divine opponents and obstacles and give him advantage against divine ones. This avoids the problem of saying it's +100 Str when he meets someone with +110 Str. This plays off the maxim that you only get to roll if the result is in doubt. Against non-divine opponents and obstacles the result isn't in doubt so no roll is necessary.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Quartz!

A modest suggestion: for Legendary Strength, just say that Kratos automatically succeeds on any Strength check, no matter what is tried.

I have been wondering about the wording revolving around the Legendary [Ability Score] powers.

Legendary Strength is not the top end of where this all goes, there is also Transcendental Strength and Omnipotence (aka Omnific Strength).

My thoughts on Legendary Strength are that it would allow you to lift anything 'ON' the planet, but it wouldn't allow you to juggle moons or whatever. So although Legendary Strength allows you to seemingly do the impossible, it does have an eventual limit - albeit one you are likely not going to reach until you get to the crazy beyond immortal tiers of play.

You might limit automatic success to non-divine opponents and obstacles and give him advantage against divine ones.

Absolutely. Certainly he wins against anyone without Legendary Strength (or better) themselves.

This avoids the problem of saying it's +100 Str when he meets someone with +110 Str.

Hypothetically Kratos could meet someone with Transcendental Strength, in which instance his own strength would be ant-like in comparison, but you don't encounter those beings until you hit the 6th dimension (that place would be a bit too dangerous for Kratos).

This plays off the maxim that you only get to roll if the result is in doubt. Against non-divine opponents and obstacles the result isn't in doubt so no roll is necessary.

The whole reason I chose +100 in the first place was to try and maintain the balance.

Initially my plan was that a blow using Legendary Strength would flat out drop a target to 0 hit points if they failed a save (DC 30), save for damage equal to their bloodied value. Gods & (Legendary) Monsters could use Legendary Resistance to avoid this. In this instance you could not use Legendary Strength more than once per turn.

It may be my initial plan was stronger (no pun intended).

As an aside, the earliest you can get any Legendary Ability Score is CR 28 (Lesser God or above) and such beings would be notably beyond epic tier parties in terms of threats and yes I know official monsters of CR 28, 29, 30 exist and they get REKT by epic parties all the time, but those ain't my CR 28 monsters. As far as I can discern, all official monsters of around CR 15 or more would be better off having their CR's dropped by about 20%, or their stat blocks reworked to make them CR compliant to the Dungeon Masters Guide's rules for HP/DPR by CR.

 

[Quartz]

Legendary Strength is not the top end of where this all goes, there is also Transcendental Strength and Omnipotence (aka Omnific Strength).

Ah right, I'd forgotten about that sort of thing. I'll have to go read up on it. But the idea was to do away with extra numbers. So you might say that 5 / day (or whatever) Kratos can empower his Strength to the Legendary tier, then define the Legendary tier and what it can do elsewhere. Thus someone with a Str of 10 which has the permanent Legendary quality would be stronger than unempowered Kratos' Str of 30, but not when Kratos uses his Legendary Strength, and someone with a Transcendental Str of 10 would be stronger regardless. And you mechanic that through 'only roll when the result is in doubt' or Advantage / Disadvantage as appropriate.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Quartz,

Ah right, I'd forgotten about that sort of thing. I'll have to go read up on it.

Well I haven't finished writing the book yet (still a few months out). Hence why this sort of feedback is much appreciated.

But the idea was to do away with extra numbers. So you might say that 5 / day (or whatever) Kratos can empower his Strength to the Legendary tier, then define the Legendary tier and what it can do elsewhere.

Certainly I have a page in the book describing the various Legendary Ability Scores. Naturally I can't (and won't) explain every rule again in each stat-block, that would be far too pedantic. But for a one off build (like this Kratos example) I needed to cram in a bit more explanation otherwise it wouldn't make sense to people here.

Definitely one of my big goals is to make Epic and Immortal Tier gaming as simple and approachable as possible. A big part of that is dialing back on the math where I can but still dialing up on the craziness.

Thus someone with a Str of 10 which has the permanent Legendary quality would be stronger than unempowered Kratos' Str of 30, but not when Kratos uses his Legendary Strength, and someone with a Transcendental Str of 10 would be stronger regardless. And you mechanic that through 'only roll when the result is in doubt' or Advantage / Disadvantage as appropriate.

As of right now, the current build is that the prerequisites for Legendary Strength (or any Legendary Ability Score) are:

1. At least Divine Rank 4 (ie. Lesser God), CR 28 or better for monsters.
2. A score of 30 in the Ability Score you want to become Legendary.