D&D 5E L&L: Exploration and Interaction

You can befriend an enemy with a spell, doesn't mean it should be possible with an ability check.

It's not really possible to one-shot an opponent with a weapon attack that doesn't use some magic boost, except at low levels (although might become possible in 5e given the damage bloat).

Also, the issue is about permanently changing the NPC's friendship or enmity towards you. With most NPCs you're going to encounter, you don't even need that. For those you really want to change, I think we can afford to require at least a little bit of roleplay rather than allowing dice alone to achieve something that could effectively last longer than death in a game of D&D.

I dunno, it just doesn't seem right. But I should note that this is, at most, a very minor matter of taste. It's absolutely not something that's going to impact on whether I buy 5e, much less on whether I'll play it. Honestly, it's not even really worth the debate - I'd much rather just file this one under "YMMV", and leave it at that. :)
 

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Y'know, there could be room for this. Interaction Minions. In 5e-speak, if you're a high level diplomancer and your enemy is some nameless droog, you can make him your loyal peon with a significantly accurate crit or somesuch.

I think running with the assumption that most interaction scenes where you'll want rules would be more involved than that is good, but I absolutely see room for Bluff One-Shots. :)

I think things like that should be automatic, not crits, per se. i.e your skill/bonus//whatever is so much greater than the DC its automatic as long as it fits the narrative (ie DM still has veto). Huge Diplomacy versus turnip farmer? yeah, he'll let you sleep in his bed, eat his food, and take one of his horses. Same bonus versus the King? Auto-fail. One does not sleep in the Kings bed, except by invitation.
 

I think things like that should be automatic, not crits, per se. i.e your skill/bonus//whatever is so much greater than the DC its automatic as long as it fits the narrative (ie DM still has veto). Huge Diplomacy versus turnip farmer? yeah, he'll let you sleep in his bed, eat his food, and take one of his horses. Same bonus versus the King? Auto-fail. One does not sleep in the Kings bed, except by invitation.

I'd solve this by giving the king, or any similarly powerful NPC, a high enough "defense" that you need to be mythically good to pull it off. If a PC is, basically, Locke Lamora, not only does he sleep in the king's bed, he sleeps with the king's daughter (or son, or both) and he walks off with the king's treasury, and the king knows it, and is patting him on the back and wishing him good luck. :)
 


This is the first interesting L&L column in some time for me. They are at long last publishing game mechanics for the core of the game. These structures should help define what D&D Next will be. My own thinking is the particulars presented are not the right way to go, not the least because they both appear to be based on skill systems / narrative resolution mechanics rather than other kinds of game mechanics. At least from my perspective they have dropped all notion of the referee map and player mapping (trial and error learning) aspect from the game. The article is a major step forward, I can't deny. I simply would have preferred it with less abstraction of exploration and communicating with creatures. It tends towards the "thousands of feats + one roll" model of design and not the "few key mechanics with their extrapolations generated into maps" model. There are benefits and drawbacks to both game design philosophies of course, but it still feel like too much of the same as a few years ago. Small steps though, right?

Here are some offerings to perhaps break out of the overly abstracted "resolution" design theories:

Possible exploration stats for locations:
-area volume [size]
-location surface area (searchable area leading to time required)
-gravity (with direction)
-previous activity log
-projected activity calendar
-noise levels (if occupied)
-visibility (if required)
-scent map (if required)
-recognizable trails
-etc

All of these are in addition to the usual shape, substantial make up, occupants, items, their arrangement (e.g. traps), light, magical auras, maybe challenge rating, and so forth.

The ability to control the clock is one of the key differences between tabletop RPGs and MMORPGs. Attempting to "travel to Rome" from hundreds of miles away can be a declared action, but the DM is going to ask for clarifications and present each of the challenge-level encounters (plus the usual description) of the journey. Maybe no one challenges, maybe there is a battelion of orcs in your way. Either way play speeds up until the point where game content requires it be dealt with. This can mean tactical dungeon exploration, reassessing daily chores, long-term strategic decisions, simultaneous time usually spent dialoguing, or even very short tactical rounds for combat and traps. (We even use speed of thought rounds for psionic combat).

NPCs alignment, race/monster abilities, and possibly class abilities, determine much of their behavior in the game. These are summarized in NPC maps, which, while dynamic, are every bit as explorable as the more traditional dungeon map / mazes and all without the necessity of dice rolls. Remember: Dice rolls are never there to resolve whose "story" is used, but to express the odds and determine the result of a pre-set relationship. These could be linear, curvilinear, or what have you, but the dice are rolled when an appropriate amount of chance comes into play. This is more boundary design and shouldn't be too hard to take the next step into. Exploring what NPCs know, how they behave, and how they change is almost always a matter for the map. It is when the players/characters attempt sufficient exertion to influence the NPCs that dice become involved.
 

At least from my perspective they have dropped all notion of the referee map and player mapping (trial and error learning) aspect from the game.

I would define the key motivators of an NPC to fall into this category. The DM knows whether the magistrate is corrupt or not. The PCs have to learn this through trial and error. Even doing their research may not give them a definitive answer, or may cause other complications. And the effect this has on the interaction (temporary shift in attitude) leads to less extremes. The extremes of trial and error are "mother may I?" or "roadblock" games, which I've found few people who enjoy such a game (if any).
 

I think simplifying down to just 1 minute and 1 hour intervals is a smart move, because it allows the rules to focus on the differences between short and long range travel. I don't think it even takes an experienced DM to alter the actual interval if something else fits better. The cave example is a good one. Another might be making the overland interval a day long when traveling great distances. The rest of the framework stays the same. A small sidebar about this topic should be all that's needed.

The sad thing is that if they don't include a sidebar, I guarantee people will complain that the game is broken. Sigh.
 

I would define the key motivators of an NPC to fall into this category. The DM knows whether the magistrate is corrupt or not. The PCs have to learn this through trial and error. Even doing their research may not give them a definitive answer, or may cause other complications. And the effect this has on the interaction (temporary shift in attitude) leads to less extremes. The extremes of trial and error are "mother may I?" or "roadblock" games, which I've found few people who enjoy such a game (if any).
"Mother may I games" remains a derogatory term from a now defunct group of ideologues who tried to make everyone else in the hobby believe as they did. But even if such games were as bad as they are usually accused of being their popularity in computer game design shouldn't be denied. I agree D&D should definitely enable players to alter the game world they are exploring, but like any mental resistance training persistent elements are needed to challenge the players and make the enterprise a game.

EDIT: The key NPC motivations / goals being explorable is a good point though.
 
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I would define the key motivators of an NPC to fall into this category. The DM knows whether the magistrate is corrupt or not. The PCs have to learn this through trial and error. Even doing their research may not give them a definitive answer, or may cause other complications. And the effect this has on the interaction (temporary shift in attitude) leads to less extremes.

The "key motivator" concept is vital to an interesting interaction pillar because it allows the players to investigate the situation and then make an interesting decision based on that information. A system based purely on diplomacy rolls (whether a single roll or a skill challenge) just doesn't provide the opportunity to make decisions about what's going in the game world. It's the interaction equivalent of having an "adventuring" skill and turning adventuring into "This is a DC 17 dungeon. Ah, a 19 -- great. You kill a tribe of orcs, gaining 800 xp and 350 gp. What do you do next?"

-KS
 

From Twitter:
gx: Love it, but... how am i going to run a multi-day travel in one-hour increments? Seems too hi-res to be useful.

Mearls: Assumption is that in safe areas, you can just resolve things on a per day basis. Hours are for hacking through wilds

gx: So e.g. in Hobbit, you use 1-day turns between the Shire and Rivendell, 1-hour turns in Mirkwood, and 1-minute in Smaug's lair?

Mearls: That's a good way to look at it.
So 1-minute turns are for dungeon exploration, 1-hour turns are for wilderness exploration, and 1-day turns are for overland travel.

Which is why it's weird that, in his description of the rules, Mearls says that the 1-hour scale is for "overland travel," while not mentioning any rules for actual overland travel.
 
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