GMforPowergamers
Legend
Even before buying imagine the reviews for book of 9 swords... You eaither love it or hate it so one review says it's the worst the next the best...
D&D 5E L&L for 6/2
- Thread starter Rydac
- Start date
Even before buying imagine the reviews for book of 9 swords... You eaither love it or hate it so one review says it's the worst the next the best...
Playing 5E doesn't require anybody to trust Wizards. If you like it, you like it, and keep playing. If you don't, you don't, and stop.Heh heh. Well, then I'd wonder why you trust them enough to play 5E in the first place, if you think their rep on decision-making is so dodgy.
Buying 5E might require trust, if you aren't in a position to look over the books before laying down money. There are lots of things you can do to gather information on a proposed purchase, though. You can look at previous things from that writer; you can read customer reviews on sites like Amazon, or published reviews on sites like RPG.net; you can post on ENWorld saying, "Hey, anybody tried this game? What do you think?"
And you can, if you like, look for an Official Wizards Seal of Approval. Nothing wrong with that. Wizards has released its share of bombs and made its share of bad decisions, but I would take their judgement into consideration. I just wouldn't put absolute faith in them. If Wizards says something is bad, and a dozen other reliable sources say it's good, that's a situation where a reasonable person would conclude the product is probably good; but if Wizards is the sole gatekeeper, we'll never even know it existed.
Not totally true though; I'm assuming that there will be plenty of alternate online stores / paths to buying content. Wizards won't police all of the internet for 5E content; I'm guessing at worst, you need the Wizards Seal of Approval (IE, nothing X rated and nothing that will get everyone involved sued for copyright infringement) to be posted in a single stop store. Unlike Apple / Google, they can't stop someone from adapting the content for use.
As I understand it, you could in theory clone 5E without even using the OGL. Copyright does not protect game mechanics, only the expression of those mechanics. As long as you're careful about not copying any of the actual text of the PHB--rewrite everything in your own words--you should be good*.
In practice, of course, you'd be walking a dangerous line. If you slip up, you're screwed. Even if you don't slip up, you'd better be prepared to defend yourself in court, and whether you win or lose, that ain't cheap.
However, the core of 5E is very, very similar to 3E, and virtually all 5E terminology can also be found in the 3E rules--in most cases, with the same or very similar meaning attached. What you could do is create an OGL bestiary and class book--create your own versions of monsters and classes, designing them to be compatible with 5E rules without actually duplicating those rules. That would be inarguably covered by OGL. Then anybody could create adventures based off your material. It would not be a clone, exactly, but it would enable the production of third-party 5E material under OGL terms.
You could even make your material cross-compatible with Pathfinder. Maybe things are going to be different in the final version of 5E, but going off the public playtest, I'm fairly certain that would be doable (in contrast to 4E, which was rather sharply incompatible with previous editions).
[SIZE=-2]*Although it's worth watching the outcome of Wizards's lawsuit against Hex Entertainment. Hex is producing an online CCG which is pretty blatantly Magic: The Gathering with the serial numbers filed off. Same turn structure, same card types (different names but same functions), same pretty much everything. There's no OGL involved on the Magic side, so this lawsuit goes straight to the heart of the question: Can Wizards, in fact, prosecute you for copying their mechanics if you don't copy their expression of them? It will probably end up getting settled quietly out of court, but if it does go before a judge, we'll get some clarification on the law.[/SIZE]
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Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Not quite. What happened was WOTC abandoned a game that Paizo picked up. This is a different scenario - picking up a current new game that Hasbro is backing right now.
Don't assume the OGL can never be challenged by Hasbro in court if you really push them. There are arguments they can make - they just have not had their back against the wall yet where a competitor is competing with them strongly using their actual current product to do it. You'd be surprised what a metric crapload of money and a big law firm can do.
sidonunspa
First Post
You have two specific issues at play
1) Game rules can not be copy written only the specific expression of those rules. (specific terminology)
2) the OGL is very broad, as such someone wanting to rebuild a 5e clone only needs to find similar existing mechanics in an existing d20 product... for example Attributes as saves, look up Castles and Crusades, they did it first.. Advantage/Disadvantage look at the existing rules for luck and what we in Arcanis did with the fate spinner class back in the d20 days (roll 2 d20 and choose the highest one.. or lowest one)
a Nu20 system can not be 100% like 5e.. but it can be damn close
sidonunspa
First Post
There is no "old contract" its the open gaming license...
as long as you stay away from specific terminology and use existing mechanics you can create something VERY close to 5e.
See 13th Age (4e built from the OGL) and the 1st edition clones for what I mean...
Pathfinder was a success because Paizo was picking up the game Wizards abandoned, and if you wanted continuing support for 3.5E, Paizo was the only game in town. I don't think a company trying to directly clone 5E and sell Fish Dentition Flayer's Handbrakes is very likely. All legal questions aside, Wizards has quite smartly protected itself against that possibility by putting out Basic D&D for free online. What this means is that people looking to play D&D on the cheap won't have to buy a knockoff--they can just download the Basic version. The market for knockoff PHBs would be quite small.
The main reason to do an OGL-clone of 5E would be as an attempt to do an end run around an overly-restrictive licensing scheme, so that people could publish 5E adventures and sourcebooks. As such, there would be no need to provide rules of play, only content (classes, monsters, magic items, et cetera).
Of course, 5E could also serve as the foundation for a wave of new d20 games, published under the OGL but drawing heavily on 5E design insights. That would unquestionably be legal.
The main reason to do an OGL-clone of 5E would be as an attempt to do an end run around an overly-restrictive licensing scheme, so that people could publish 5E adventures and sourcebooks. As such, there would be no need to provide rules of play, only content (classes, monsters, magic items, et cetera).
Of course, 5E could also serve as the foundation for a wave of new d20 games, published under the OGL but drawing heavily on 5E design insights. That would unquestionably be legal.
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sidonunspa
First Post
but if you find the mechanics they are using in other, pre-existing d20 products by other companies, or within the OGL itself there is not much they can do about it.
>> points to castles and crusades for attributes as saves
sidonunspa
First Post
that's my hope...
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