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L4W Discussion Thread III
- Thread starter garyh
- Start date
Stringbean2142
First Post
Mal Malenkirk said:
Umm, if it gets Mesa's butt out of the sewers, I'm all for it...
Sweet I created a character using the character builder
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Lephisto Izgon, level 1
Human, Paladin
Build: Avenging Paladin
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 16.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 14.
AC: 10 Fort: 15 Reflex: 12 Will: 15
HP: 27 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 6
TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +6, Religion +5, Diplomacy +8, Intimidate +8, Heal +6
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Arcana, Bluff +3, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +1, History, Nature +1, Perception +1, Stealth, Streetwise +3, Thievery, Athletics +3
FEATS
Human: Powerful Charge
Level 1: Healing Hands
POWERS
Paladin at-will 1: Bolstering Strike
Paladin at-will 1: Holy Strike
Paladin encounter 1: Shielding Smite
Paladin daily 1: Paladin's Judgment
Human: Valiant Strike
ITEMS
Scale Armor, Longsword
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Lephisto Izgon, level 1
Human, Paladin
Build: Avenging Paladin
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 16.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 14.
AC: 10 Fort: 15 Reflex: 12 Will: 15
HP: 27 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 6
TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +6, Religion +5, Diplomacy +8, Intimidate +8, Heal +6
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Arcana, Bluff +3, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +1, History, Nature +1, Perception +1, Stealth, Streetwise +3, Thievery, Athletics +3
FEATS
Human: Powerful Charge
Level 1: Healing Hands
POWERS
Paladin at-will 1: Bolstering Strike
Paladin at-will 1: Holy Strike
Paladin encounter 1: Shielding Smite
Paladin daily 1: Paladin's Judgment
Human: Valiant Strike
ITEMS
Scale Armor, Longsword
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
renau1g
First Post
It probably is..... but it is far too long a game for this type of format. I've seen DM's try and start one of Paizo's AP's and not even get close to finsihing the first adventure. PbP isi better suited to smaller adventures, while tabeltop games are better for long adventures
Lord Sessadore
Explorer
Looks pretty good for a first try, Lephisto. Remember that in L4W we get 25 points to spend, though, which means you have 3 more points to spend on ability scores. In addition to that, a little advice, if I may.
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Warning: This got really long on me - don't feel obligated to read it all. I can condense it if it's too long, or the others around here can do the same. They all know what I'm talking about
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First, you should try to avoid making a character that uses two abilities for attacking. IE - pick Str or Cha as your attack stat and stick to it. While you can make a character that splits between the two at level 1, it gets harder and harder to maintain at higher levels.
If you want two 16's as a paladin, I'd recommend you pick one of Str or Cha, and the other 16 in Wis. (Note that this is what I did with my paladin, Riayek. His sheet is in my signature if you want to take a look.) If you go the Str route, a 14 Cha would be good; if you go Cha, you could let your Str be 12 or lower. With 25 points, 16/16/14 is very doable, with enough to get, say, Con and Dex up to 12 for hp and possible feats later.
However, conventional 4e wisdom says that you should do your best to have your attack stat at 18 at level 1. While my L4W paladin has 16 in his attack stat, that's because I purposely picked a race for character reasons that didn't get a racial bonus to either paladin attack stat and I wanted a balanced character. I would recommend against only having 16 in your attack stat unless you're OK with hitting less often than most of your allies and doing a little less damage, especially for beginners. With 25 points, a 16/16/14/12/10/8 array with your +2 bonus on one of the 16's gives you the 18 attack stat and 16 and 14 for your two supporting stats - this is a classic 4e character build. That array does leave you a little scarce on feat prereqs for later, though, so you might want to play around with it if you want to go that route. Also, choosing a race with +2's for your attack stat and one of your 2ndary stats lets you drop the 2nd 16 to a 14, though, giving you those extra points to spread out to the other stats for feat prereqs and whatnot. (Ignore that last sentence if you're stuck on human, though - play the character you want to play)
Unfortunately, Str paladins sort of need both Cha and Wis, so you need to spread yourself more thinly. There is a feat inPHB2 Divine Power that lets you add your Str modifier to your Divine Challenge retaliation damage, though, so with that feat you could drop Cha and not notice too much.
If you choose to go Cha instead of Str, you could drop Str quite low and use those points to boost other abilities for feat prereqs. If you still want your Cha paladin to hit with opportunity attacks and melee basic attacks (also called MBA's), just take Melee Training (Cha) - a feat from PHB2 that lets you use whichever ability you picked (in this case, Charisma) for MBA's instead of Str.
Am I making sense, or is this too much information? I seem to have a tendency to flood people with too much info too fast when talking about D&D, so hopefully I'm not doing that again
---------
Warning: This got really long on me - don't feel obligated to read it all. I can condense it if it's too long, or the others around here can do the same. They all know what I'm talking about
---------
First, you should try to avoid making a character that uses two abilities for attacking. IE - pick Str or Cha as your attack stat and stick to it. While you can make a character that splits between the two at level 1, it gets harder and harder to maintain at higher levels.
If you want two 16's as a paladin, I'd recommend you pick one of Str or Cha, and the other 16 in Wis. (Note that this is what I did with my paladin, Riayek. His sheet is in my signature if you want to take a look.) If you go the Str route, a 14 Cha would be good; if you go Cha, you could let your Str be 12 or lower. With 25 points, 16/16/14 is very doable, with enough to get, say, Con and Dex up to 12 for hp and possible feats later.
However, conventional 4e wisdom says that you should do your best to have your attack stat at 18 at level 1. While my L4W paladin has 16 in his attack stat, that's because I purposely picked a race for character reasons that didn't get a racial bonus to either paladin attack stat and I wanted a balanced character. I would recommend against only having 16 in your attack stat unless you're OK with hitting less often than most of your allies and doing a little less damage, especially for beginners. With 25 points, a 16/16/14/12/10/8 array with your +2 bonus on one of the 16's gives you the 18 attack stat and 16 and 14 for your two supporting stats - this is a classic 4e character build. That array does leave you a little scarce on feat prereqs for later, though, so you might want to play around with it if you want to go that route. Also, choosing a race with +2's for your attack stat and one of your 2ndary stats lets you drop the 2nd 16 to a 14, though, giving you those extra points to spread out to the other stats for feat prereqs and whatnot. (Ignore that last sentence if you're stuck on human, though - play the character you want to play
)Unfortunately, Str paladins sort of need both Cha and Wis, so you need to spread yourself more thinly. There is a feat in
If you choose to go Cha instead of Str, you could drop Str quite low and use those points to boost other abilities for feat prereqs. If you still want your Cha paladin to hit with opportunity attacks and melee basic attacks (also called MBA's), just take Melee Training (Cha) - a feat from PHB2 that lets you use whichever ability you picked (in this case, Charisma) for MBA's instead of Str.
Am I making sense, or is this too much information? I seem to have a tendency to flood people with too much info too fast when talking about D&D, so hopefully I'm not doing that again
Last edited:
Can someone with a Character builder please veiw my character sheet and check my character page to see if i got this right: L4W
C:Lephisto Izgon (Lephisto) - ENWiki
C:Lephisto Izgon (Lephisto) - ENWiki
renau1g
First Post
Well done LS, the majority of ppl do try to get 18 into their main stat (both of my PC's are). The only time I've done differently is with a PC I'm planning to play in RL. He's a Eladrin Taclord, using a greatspear and I wanted to grab polearm gamble & momentum, which require a 15 wis and 15 dex... I had to go with 15/15/14/12/11/8 with 15's in STR/Int, 14 in Wis, 12 in Dex...
Now he's built with no actual attacking At-wills, I choose opening shove (targets Ref) and commander's strike, so the lower STR is less of a concern...but yeah, traditionally I'd go with an 18 in main stat.
Now he's built with no actual attacking At-wills, I choose opening shove (targets Ref) and commander's strike, so the lower STR is less of a concern...but yeah, traditionally I'd go with an 18 in main stat.
JoeNotCharles
First Post
For those people who haven't been reading the proposal thread, an announcement: we just adopted a major change in the policy of allowed material. Now material published by WotC is automatically allowed 1 month after publication, unless we specifically vote to exclude it. That means that 1 month from now, the following will become legal:
So if anyone sees anything on this list that they feel is too strong (I know some of you read the char-op boards...) or just not appropriate for the setting, please make a proposal to exclude it, and then the judges will debate it and vote on it.
- Divine Power, except for the Hero of Faith feat and the powers Astral Seal and Recovery Strike (still under discussion here)
- Eberron Player's Guide
- Eberron Campaign Guide
- Player's Handbook Heroes, Series 2 miniatures (powers)
- Monster Manual 2 (new player races)
- Open Grave (items and rituals)
- Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide
- Dragon 366 articles: Mithrendain (new powers, paragon paths, and items), Ritually Speaking, Rose Keep (items), Scales of War Backgrounds
- Dragon 368, except for the feats Staff Fighting, Called Shot, Binding Style, Exotic Fighting Style, Hunting Spider Style, Starlight Duelist; and the items Whip and Net, and associated feats (still under discussion here)
- Dragon 369, except for the Minotaur article (still under discussion here), Ghoststride Boots, and Giantkind Gloves (still under discussion here).
- Dragon 370
- Dragon 371
- Dragon 375
- Dragon 376
- Dragon 377
- Several magic items and rituals which appeared in adventures (I know there are some in Dungeon Delve and Dungeon Magazine, dunno about the rest)
So if anyone sees anything on this list that they feel is too strong (I know some of you read the char-op boards...) or just not appropriate for the setting, please make a proposal to exclude it, and then the judges will debate it and vote on it.
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