Lame rule or streak of utter genius? (Movement related)

[Graf]

I think most people agree that D&D, and other roleplaying games, video games, etc. can't reflect the world with perfect accuracy (leaving aside the stick point of whether there is an objective world or not). So games pick a certain level of abstraction and stick to it.

One place where D&D has happened to set the level of abstraction has always bothered me: movement.
So on my way to lunch I thought this little rule up. Since creatures only figure out their base speed once, and its based on the creatures Dexterity stat, ignoring racial modifiers*, the book keeping would be minimal.
Why ignore racial modifiers? Because fast creatures already have higher speeds. The system is more to track individual differences among similar creatures, and give exceptional creatures a little bit of a bump.

The Rule
For every point of dexterity above 10 (not counting racial adjustments) a creatures base speed increases by 1. For every full five points of dexterity a creature can move one extra 5' square when taking move action (or two if she takes a double move, etc.). Likewise for every point below 1 the creature's base speed decreases by 1; should a creature's score, not counting racial modifiers, fall to 5 the creature can move one less 5' square when taking a move action (or 2 less if taking a double move, etc.).

Why do I like the system?
1. It's simple.
2. It rewards an odd score (Dex 15)
3. Because most of the things out in the world have relatively unexceptional dexterity scores the book-keeping for DMs remain low.
4. It allows more diversity. It's possible for a one-in-million-dwarf (dex 20) to keep up with a human of average speed.
5. Movement and speed is extremely important in D&D. There is no system in the core books, or any other book I'm aware of, to deal with characters who are racing each other, or moving more or less quickly.

So is this balanced? Is it unclear? Have I missed something? Is it a waste of Morris' db space to store this horrible idea?
Let me know what you think.

 

[Tywyll]

5. Movement and speed is extremely important in D&D. There is no system in the core books, or any other book I'm aware of, to deal with characters who are racing each other, or moving more or less quickly.

So is this balanced? Is it unclear? Have I missed something? Is it a waste of Morris' db space to store this horrible idea?
Let me know what you think.

I certainly agree a system needs to be taken into account. There is mention of this in the DMG about chases and pursuits, in which you make contested dex checks with the person in the lead or with a faster movement rate getting a +2 to the roll.

As for you idea... I think it has merit, but needs work. While I understand what you mean that high dex MONSTERs are often faster already, I don't think its fair that an elf's dex mod should be ignored. If a 15 gets you a +1 square then a 15 should get you a +1 square.

Sadly I don't really know how to suggest a way around that that takes into account monsters and what not.

 

[A'koss]

Quite a while back I used to use a similar rule to your Graf, but in our latest campaign we have a Movement Skill (Dex, Trained only). It has skill synergy with Tumble and Balance. Here's a brief synopsis, it's worked quite well IOC...

DC Movement Bonus
10 +5' Move
15 +10' Move
20 +15' Move
25 +20' Move
...
+5 +5' Move

DC Special Movement
20 - Reduce hampered movement by 1/4
30 - Reduce hampered movement by 1/2
40 - Ignore hampered movement (eg. Full move rate in deep snow)

30 - Move 10' and Full Attack
40 - Move 15' and Full Attack
50 - Move 20' and Full Attack


Cheers,

A'koss.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

While I understand what you mean that high dex MONSTERs are often faster already, I don't think its fair that an elf's dex mod should be ignored. If a 15 gets you a +1 square then a 15 should get you a +1 square.

I don't think I see the same problem as you. Feel free to correct me on this, but the ruling ignores racial movement speeds for the purposes of determining a movement modifier, then adds that movement modifier to the creature. So an elf with his +2 dex modifier can get a +5' move, if that +2 dex brings his dex to 15 or above.

I think I like this rule quite a bit, but I do foresee a problem when applied to monstrous races. A pixie gets, I believe, a full +8 to her dex, or +5.6' (5' rnd dwn). That's the same as the elf at +2. If there's only 1 square of movement difference between a dex of 9 and a dex of 19, then I don't see any compelling reason to use the rule - everyones essentially moving at nearly the same speed they were before.

However, I'd recommend that you change the base rule to being a 5' movement speed bonus for every 2 points of Dex Mod.

So if a 14 is a +2, that character gains +5' movement. Or a pixie rogue with a 20 (+5) gains a +10' movement.

This appears to make sense to me, and still preserver the simplicity of the original rule. Comments?

 

[Scion]

Quite a while back I used to use a similar rule to your Graf, but in our latest campaign we have a Movement Skill (Dex, Trained only). It has skill synergy with Tumble and Balance. Here's a brief synopsis, it's worked quite well IOC...
Cheers,

A'koss.

Wow! thats great! Hope you dont mind if I steal that

 

[tmaaas]

I would mostly ignore racial modifers to dex, but not all:

Assume all racial modifiers in blocks of 5 (divide by 5 and keep integer) are included in the creature's base speed. Any left over amount (modulus: divide by 5 and keep remainder) counts towards the creature's next 5' block.

This gives elves and slight boost over humans (thier +2 dex modifier counts towards the movement boost) where if you ignore it, a dex 15 human would be as fast as a dex 17 elf.

Regarding the aforementioned pixie, a dex 18 pixie (standard) would have the listed base speed, while a dex 20 pixie would have a +5 movement bonus.

Bookkeeping is still fairly simple.

Again, using the pixie as an example: Listed dex: 18

First improvement threshhold kicks in when you reach next dex score divisible by 5 (at 20), and then increments every +5 thereafter.

The "zero" threshhold kicks in when you reach the next lower dex score divisible by 5 (at 15) and decrements at every -5 thereafter. Thus, at dex 15 still use the base speed, but at dex 10, reduce speed by 5 ft.

 

[Magic Slim]

Quite a while back I used to use a similar rule to your Graf, but in our latest campaign we have a Movement Skill (Dex, Trained only). It has skill synergy with Tumble and Balance. Here's a brief synopsis, it's worked quite well IOC...

DC Movement Bonus
10 +5' Move
15 +10' Move
20 +15' Move
25 +20' Move
...
+5 +5' Move

DC Special Movement
20 - Reduce hampered movement by 1/4
30 - Reduce hampered movement by 1/2
40 - Ignore hampered movement (eg. Full move rate in deep snow)

30 - Move 10' and Full Attack
40 - Move 15' and Full Attack
50 - Move 20' and Full Attack


Cheers,

A'koss.

What happens on a failed roll? Doesn't it lead to a LOT more dice rolls?

Slim

 

[A'koss]

Originally posted by Scion:

Wow! thats great! Hope you dont mind if I steal that

Not at all... and thanks!

Originally posted by Magic Slim:

What happens on a failed roll? Doesn't it lead to a LOT more dice rolls?

Like Jump, you simply roll and see how much improvement in speed you get (if any). If you're trying to get an additionall 20' out of your move but only get a DC 15, you still gain +10' on your move. Remembering, of course, to factor in any Armor check penalties...

Also, which may help with your dice roll concerns, you may Take 10 if you are not being threatened. And obviously, it only makes sense to use this skill when there is a need for it. We've been playtesting it for a while now and it's worked marvelously so far.

Anyway, I hope that helps...

A'koss.

 

[A'koss]

Double Post...

 

[Graf]

Wow, thanks for at the input. Lots of interesting comments.

While I understand what you mean that high dex MONSTERs are often faster already, I don't think its fair that an elf's dex mod should be ignored.

My goal in making the system wasn't to reward high Dexterity races, just to fill in a perceived gap in a simple way. I feel that if a DM really wants elves to be faster runners than humans they can just give them +5 to movement.
The alternatives were a lot of work for what I perceive as little reward. If racial modifiers aren't ignored every monster would need to be to be recalculated, and weird abnormalities like the Pixie would develop, where the entire race has a different speed than is listed in the MM. Likewise a limited application is unappealing: If it only applies to player characters that ruins the verisimilitude of the world and creates a lot of weirdness.
For that matter both elves and halfings are shorter than the other races in their movement category. I can easily see the slightly higher speed being offset by their shorter legs.

Quite a while back I used to use a similar rule to your Graf, but in our latest campaign we have a Movement Skill (Dex, Trained only).

I was more interested in looking for a simple system to lay out which characters are faster than others. I was especially leery of introducing another skill. D&D has a small number of skills, especially 3.5, and that's deliberate. Before a ranger could be perfectly good at running around without a skill, now suddenly they need to take skill points away from another skill or else they are slow compared with other characters. It's particularly crippling for classes like fighters, which already have limited skill choices, but aggravating for everyone. Playing with a DM who loves to introduce complex optional systems that effectively limit PC abilities have soured me on Optional systems that penalize PCs.
I've also never been a tremendous fan of rolling checks for simple actions everyone takes every single round. I feel that D&D doesn't have Defense checks, or Parry rules, for precisely this reason. While a system like that might be great for a foot race I don't really want to have to make every single monster make a dex check every time it moves. Especially if a system provides significant payoffs that players -have- to use it (and thus monsters and NPCs do to) can absorb a lot of time and slow the game down.
Btw: I'm not saying your rule is bad, or that you shouldn't play the way you want, but the net costs of the system seem to outweigh the benefits to me. I assume rogues/rangers & high skill classes in your games move significantly faster than other members of their race, is that true? Do your players like rolling every round? Do you make them roll before they declare their actions? If afterward how do you deal with unknown penalties? How do you handle big fights?

I don't think I see the same problem as you. Feel free to correct me on this, but the ruling ignores racial movement speeds for the purposes of determining a movement modifier, then adds that movement modifier to the creature.

Tywyll's interpretation is the one I had in mind when I thought the rule up. Elves don't move faster despite their dex bonus, nor do halfings. I think I explained why in my response to him above.

I think I like this rule quite a bit, but I do foresee a problem when applied to monstrous races. A pixie gets, I believe, a full +8 to her dex, or +5.6' (5' rnd dwn). That's the same as the elf at +2.

This confused me. Where does 5.6 come from? The system ignores size if that's what your thinking.

I'd recommend that you change the base rule to being a 5' movement speed bonus for every 2 points of Dex Mod.So if a 14 is a +2, that character gains +5' movement. Or a pixie rogue with a 20 (+5) gains a +10' movement.

Initially the system was based around dexterity modifiers but I realized that 1. this rewards an even score instead of an odd one 2. it's simpler this way. Also using the score instead of the stat allows for a finer distinction in speeds, if two characters are running in a flat field in a race someone with a slightly higher dex might as well be moving slightly more quickly, so long as it doesn't make the game mechanic too complex.
The system is deliberately not a significant change. Before the system was "all humans move speed 30". Now it is "humans generally move 30, only exceptional individuals are fast enough for it to have an impact over short distances". But I play in 32 point games 14s are common. Your average NPC thief has a dex of 14. By comparison 15s, where you give up a rise in two points of another score for no game benefit, are exceedingly rare. I say give the character with a 14 dex a +2 to dex skills, ref saves, AC, weapon finesse, etc. and save the movement boost for the exceptional 15. The rule isn't really supposed to reward higher dexterity scores so much as have a mechanism for creatures of the same race to be faster and slower than each other.

If your games only use 22 points (or a straight 3d6 stat rolling system) then a 15 becomes a much more significant barrier. On the other hand my presumption is that people who play in those sorts of games are not interested in having characters who are exceptional, at least in terms of game stats, compared to normal people in the world.

One more thing: the system, though I didn't specify, is -only- for land speed, ie. walking, running, etc. Other forms of movement common in D&D often use other attributes (like strength for burrowing, climbing and swimming) and have their own systems of checks for how to increase someone's speed. Or else they involve complex stuff that I don't want to get into like flying. I know little of aerodynamics, nor can I think of a reason why creatures that probably couldn't fly without magic according to modern physics (dragons, beholders) ought to be moving faster than each other.