D&D General Languages suck in D&D.

[Older Beholder]

I agree. That's what optional rules are for. WotC 5e used to have them.

It still does.

 

[Hussar]

Writers cost between 5 and 25 cents a word.

WotC, of all companies, can afford to have someone write 2,000 words on Language.

"Limited developer resources" my left butt cheek.

The problem is, you asked the question of why doesn’t DnD do this. You got the answer - because it adds complexity to the game that people would not enjoy. Instead of listening, you’re insisting that we are all wrong and if we would just try it, we would like it.

That’s not really the most enticing argument.

You mentioned gravity forcing difficulty on the players in the form of flying monsters. True. But the solution is, buy a bow. The solution takes ten seconds to fix. If your language issues had the same level of difficulty to solve - the players can take ten seconds to write “ignore languages “ on their character sheets then we are good to go.

Gravity adds interesting challenges that aren’t road blocks. I don’t need anything special to get around gravity. No special skills or equipment that mean I do not get to participate at all in the game if I don’t have them.

Language rules mean the party is roadblocked every time they run into an interaction where they don’t speak the language. They cannot participate at all.

That’s why I don’t want more complex language rules. Any subsystem that sidelines players is something I am not interested in.

 

[LordEntrails]

Writers cost between 5 and 25 cents a word.

WotC, of all companies, can afford to have someone write 2,000 words on Language.

"Limited developer resources" my left butt cheek.

Like. We're not talking about AAA Gaming high end graphics and engine coding, here. We're talking about writing up a minor side system entirely in text.

lol, is that really how you think business works? First, they have a relatively set number of writers, who are all busy on something they deem a higher priority. Then those writers have producers, who oversee what is being worked on. And editors and managers. And then they only have so many publications per year to put content in (yes, this is a self-imposed limit, but they have their reasons for doing this).

So, what 5 or 20 pages of a planned upcoming publication do you think they should not publish and instead publish something that you say will be ignored by most everyone?

Personally I don't care who makes it. I just think there should be lots of optional rules modules out there, and I think the fact that WotC disagrees with me for their part is sad for those folks who, for one reason or another, feel they can only use material WotC publishes.

They do and don't agree with you. They don't think they should be the ones publishing it, but they setup the DMsG so that others could publish such. They also released the Wizard's Fan Content Policy so that anyone could publish almost anything, as long s it's for the 'love of the game' (i.e. free)

 

[LordEntrails]

Language rules mean the party is roadblocked every time they run into an interaction where they don’t speak the language. They cannot participate at all.

Of course the exception to this is "magic". There are spells and devices that give us comprehend languages. Which if you don't want languages to be a roadblock you can solve this way. Which of course makes a complex language system irrelevant. Unless you limit the number of uses of comprehend languages, and now you just have one more limited resource to track.

I agree, not fun for me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

lol, is that really how you think business works? First, they have a relatively set number of writers, who are all busy on something they deem a higher priority. Then those writers have producers, who oversee what is being worked on. And editors and managers. And then they only have so many publications per year to put content in (yes, this is a self-imposed limit, but they have their reasons for doing this).

So, what 5 or 20 pages of a planned upcoming publication do you think they should not publish and instead publish something that you say will be ignored by most everyone?

They do and don't agree with you. They don't think they should be the ones publishing it, but they setup the DMsG so that others could publish such. They also released the Wizard's Fan Content Policy so that anyone could publish almost anything, as long s it's for the 'love of the game' (i.e. free)

Unfortunately that doesn't help those people for which I feel sad.

 

[Lanefan]

The problem is, you asked the question of why doesn’t DnD do this. You got the answer - because it adds complexity to the game that people would not enjoy. Instead of listening, you’re insisting that we are all wrong and if we would just try it, we would like it.

That’s not really the most enticing argument.

It is when the chance to try it isn't provided by the game as written. The old saying "you can't miss what you've never had" applies here.

Also, I think the bolded is rather speculative.

You mentioned gravity forcing difficulty on the players in the form of flying monsters. True. But the solution is, buy a bow. The solution takes ten seconds to fix. If your language issues had the same level of difficulty to solve - the players can take ten seconds to write “ignore languages “ on their character sheets then we are good to go.

Gravity adds interesting challenges that aren’t road blocks. I don’t need anything special to get around gravity. No special skills or equipment that mean I do not get to participate at all in the game if I don’t have them.

50 years of climbing skills and falling damage stand up and beg to differ.

Language rules mean the party is roadblocked every time they run into an interaction where they don’t speak the language. They cannot participate at all.

Sure they can. They just have to be creative about it:

--- use sign language or body language or whatever other means you or I might use were we suddenly stuck somewhere foreign
--- use or threaten violence to get the point across
--- if available, use magic to aid in translation
--- seek out someone who can translate for you
--- accept failure and abandon the encounter

That’s why I don’t want more complex language rules. Any subsystem that sidelines players is something I am not interested in.

There's a big gulf between a) sidelining players and b) frustrating players and c) forcing players to be creative. The first of these is bad, e.g. if the players have to silently sit and watch while two bigwig NPCs talk to each other. The other two are good: b) means the challenge is probably working as intended and c) means they're engaging with the challenge and looking for means of overcoming it.

 

[Older Beholder]

For those that have made their own languages for their homebrew setting, how many languages does your world have?

 

[Steampunkette]

The problem is, you asked the question of why doesn’t DnD do this. You got the answer - because it adds complexity to the game that people would not enjoy. Instead of listening, you’re insisting that we are all wrong and if we would just try it, we would like it.

No. I didn't ask the question. I posited an opinion. And I didn't get "The Answer".

I assume the actual answer is a lot more simple than any kind of considered thought about complexity: There's Languages in the game, already. End of thought.

Language rules mean the party is roadblocked every time they run into an interaction where they don’t speak the language. They cannot participate at all.

That’s why I don’t want more complex language rules. Any subsystem that sidelines players is something I am not interested in.

Which is why the "Complex Rules" is about breaking the binary of "You know or don't know a language" into "Well you know a neighboring language so you get the gist of it"

But go off, I guess.

lol, is that really how you think business works? First, they have a relatively set number of writers, who are all busy on something they deem a higher priority. Then those writers have producers, who oversee what is being worked on. And editors and managers. And then they only have so many publications per year to put content in (yes, this is a self-imposed limit, but they have their reasons for doing this).

How much experience have you had talking to designers who have worked for Paizo and WotC about pay scales and deadlines? Or smaller publishers? Just curious!

Here's the rough process:

1) Publisher wants a book.
2) Lead Designers pitch ideas for books.
2a) UA and other stuff kind of nebulously happens either before 1 (writer's own time) or before 7. (The Mystic, for example, wasn't slated for any book, where the Dragonmarks in the latest UA are)
3) Publisher picks the idea they like and gives the Lead Designer a budget and a timetable.
4) Lead Designer grabs other writers to work on the project.
5) Using the style guide and guidelines set forth, the writers write.
6) Everything goes to the Lead Designer for approval.
6a) Any Sensitivity Reading goes on and changes get made.
7) Everything goes to editing or back to writers for changes the Lead Designer requests.
8) Editors edit the work.
9) Lead Designer approves the edit.
10) Layout and Art work with Lead Designer to prepare the product.
11) It goes through any final approvals.
12) It gets published.

Now for the PHB/DMG/MM it's a bit more complicated, obviously. With way more focus on 1, 4-8, and 11... but...

Yeah. The actual process of writing languages material would just be something a writer works on instead of copy-pasting the last edition's languages material. Probably a freelancer, and probably for a few cents a word.

So, what 5 or 20 pages of a planned upcoming publication do you think they should not publish and instead publish something that you say will be ignored by most everyone?

5-20 pages? Dude, I wrote up an example within 800 words. How big is the font in your PHB that you think it'd take 5-20 pages? That's like a Half-Column on one page.

 

[Lanefan]

So, what 5 or 20 pages of a planned upcoming publication do you think they should not publish and instead publish something that you say will be ignored by most everyone?

I nominate for replacement the 5-20 pages they'll use for introducing yet more playable-as-PC species, yet more feats and abilities, and yet more spells that do things other spells already do.

Our rather complex homebrew language system is here...

Blue Book - Part 4 - Nuts and Bolts

...and it would easily fit on 5 pages I think. (note that many of the Human languages are renamed/reskinned versions of historical languages)

 

[el-remmen]

For me, when I went to France knowing some Spanish was no help to me in understanding French.

Also hearing people speak Portuguese and one of those non-Spanish Spanish languages I could tell they were close to Spanish but that was it.

As a heritage Spanish speaker, on the other hand, when I worked with people from Brazil we could communicate with some effort and a whole lot of fun as we’d laugh at the funny differences of the distinct but otherwise close languages.

When it comes to hearing French I am totally lost, but in reading some French, the Latin origins of both it and Spanish can help me get the gist.