languages

[Beholder Bob]

Language is a unique kind of skill and should be treated as such. Characters start with 5 LP in their native tongue, and each additional language learned (for high intelligence) gives +3 LP for languages. When buying languages, each CP gives 3 LP. Illiterate characters (1st level barbarians) start with 3 LP in speaking only.

LP Speaking
1 Speak poorly, trouble keeping up w/ natives
2 Accent, may freely communicate
3 Sound like a native

LP Reading
1 Read slowly and with limited vocabulary
2 Understand clearly, read at regular speed
3 Read quickly, a very capable writer, excellent vocabulary

 

[Terath Ninir]

Hmm. That's not bad, really. Pretty simple and straightforward. Have you tried this rule out any?

 

[Beholder Bob]

Not yet. I'm saving my new rules for the next campaign I'm starting, should be within 6 months or so. I'm doing a lot of changes, but rather then modify current characters in my game, I'm just waiting for fresh, 1st level characters to corrupt!

Both the barbarian and commoner class gets 3 LP at 1st level

Text addition: you must take 3 LP at speaking your native language.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Not yet. I'm saving my new rules for the next campaign I'm starting, should be within 6 months or so. I'm doing a lot of changes, but rather then modify current characters in my game, I'm just waiting for fresh, 1st level characters to corrupt!

Both the barbarian and commoner class gets 3 LP at 1st level

Text addition: you must take 3 LP at speaking your native language.

 

[Terath Ninir]

One thing I was thinking is that you could extend each so that there are 4 levels of speaking and 4 of writing. Speak Language is a cross-class skill for just about everyone. If each skill point gets you 4 language points, you could have half a skill point give 2 language points.

Just a thought.

 

[Beholder Bob]

One thing I was thinking is that you could extend each so that there are 4 levels of speaking and 4 of writing. Speak Language is a cross-class skill for just about everyone. If each skill point gets you 4 language points, you could have half a skill point give 2 language points.

Just a thought.

True - but currently it works the same way. 6 LP gives you 3 for speaking and 3 for writing/reading. A single skill point spent on the skill gives you 3 LP. It really just boils down to how much you wish to define/break down reading/writing and speaking.

Currently, I assume 3 levels of each: Poor, OK, and Excellent. You could easily add more layers - but extra layers increase complexity. I give a poor understanding a -4 to convey subtle/complex concepts, -2 for OK to do the same, and no penalty for an Excellent speaker/reader/writer. I give the same penalty for disguise when your disguise has you speaking a language you do not speak like a native.

If you wish to add further layers inbetween, or perhaps additional levels of skill (how good is someone with 6 LP in writing? Shakespear? Bonus or Synergy for high levels?) then you will need to define the difference.

You also face a problem with increasing the LP to master a language. Say you make it 5 LP to speak and 5 LP to read/write at max - that same person could take 2 LP in 5 languages to speak them all - suddenly individuals are very polylingual! Not great, but enough to get by. So bumping it too high risks this abuse.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Two comments:

1) Why do you get 5 LP in your birth language? Is that to be spread among the speaking and read/write?

2) Dead languages (e.g., Thorass in the Forgotten Realms) should be harder to learn--after all, who is going to teach you, if only a half-dozen people even speak the language any more? Maybe the first step requiring 2 LP?

Definitely simpler than the one offered in the Player's Guide to Kalamar...

 

[Terath Ninir]

Okay, this has sparked my own idea. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with yours, BB. On the contrary, I quite like it. My variant would be for my own uses.

I wouldn't split speaking and writing. Yeah, you lose some flexibility that way, but you also remove a complication that I wouldn't use. I'd have 5 levels in each.

Language Points
1: Can only communicate and understand simple concepts.
2: Can communicate and understand most concepts, but has a thick accent.
3: Can communicate and understand all concepts, but has a noticeable accent.
4: Native speaker and writer; slight accent unless the character is a true native speaker.
5: Expert -- knows and can use obscure words that no one else knows. No accent, even if not a native speaker.

My descriptions aren't all I would wish them to be, but I've got to go in a minute. Please excuse the clumsiness.

I'd give all characters their native language at 4 and one other language (common, or any if they're human) at 3. Each "bonus language" would give you 3 points to spend. The Speak Language skill would give you 2 language points for every skill point (so 1 point for every 1/2 skill point if it's a cross-class skill).

So you could have more levels of speech, and more realistic accents, but the whole system wouldn't be any more complicated than Beholder Bob's.

This definitely would need some playtesting, though.

 

[Beholder Bob]

Heretic Apostate: why 5 LP at 1st? So you are a native speaker (3 LP) and a moderate reader/writer (2 LP). You only get 3 LP per SP or INT bonus - so you are likely to be a LP 2 speaker and LP 1 reader - or the reverse for the scholarly. Folks who spend 1 SP for it when it is a cross class skill gain 1 LP for the 1st, 2 LP for the 2nd, repeat as necessary. I felt that no one should be a master of both written and spoken language without some effort.

dead languages? Ahh - good point!! I'd say its double cost unless you are able to learn it from a native (tough to do) or are immersed in a group who use it (college w/ bunch o' colleges speaking Latin at you).

I'm not familiar with the method used in the Player's Guide to Kalamar...

Cyberzombie: cool! My preference is to split literacy and the written word, but your method would be very streamlined and effective! Let me know how it works in your game.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Another point: Trade tongues generally focus on matters of trade (duh! ), so they should not be able to be bumped up to a full level. Under Beholder Bob's, that means it should get up to at most level 2, except in matters of trade.

The system in Kalamar is a 10-point scale, with each skill point giving you 5 points. More complicated, though possibly more accurate. But if I wanted accuracy over playability, I'd play Hero.