Large Longbow Question

[StreamOfTheSky]

Does anyone else rule like I do, that larger sizes "start" their range increments from the edge of their reach? In other words, a large human-shaped creature that has 10 ft reach would measure his range starting from 10 ft away? Because if you don't do that, 10 ft range increment thrown weapons become kinda really dumb...

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Does anyone else rule like I do, that larger sizes "start" their range increments from the edge of their reach? In other words, a large human-shaped creature that has 10 ft reach would measure his range starting from 10 ft away? Because if you don't do that, 10 ft range increment thrown weapons become kinda really dumb...

I've always found thrown weapon range to be a bit limiting, so that seems like a decent idea. As I think on it I'm not totally sure whether to keep the actual ranges in place, but I'm also speaking from the view of someone who isn't trained in their use.

 

[anest1s]

Complete Warrior has an updated version, along with Composite Greatbow in there too.

Thanks too, but I can't exp you!

 

[Jackinthegreen]

After a bit of poking around, the Arms and Equipment Guide does give rules for differently-sized ranged weapons.

Size and Range: Larger and smaller versions of ranged weapons have correspondingly longer or shorter range increments. Each time you increase a weapon’s size, lengthen its range increment by 25%. For example, Huge longbows, such as those wielded by ogre mages, have a range increment of 125 feet. Each time you decrease a weapon’s size, shorten its range increment by 25%. A Medium-size longbow in the hands of a halfling has a range increment of 75 feet.

Note that this is strictly 3.0, but since it's not fully updated in the 3.5 Core, it can be used. By these rules a standard Large Longbow would have a 125 foot increment, while a Large Composite Longbow would be 137.5, rounded down to 135.

 

[Tharkon]

Size does not increase range, in the same way that a collossal shortspear does not have reach, despite being probably 10 times the length of a medium longspear.

It does have reach when wielded by a collossal creature.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Just putting this here to show how far a character can shoot.

Medium Composite Greatbow: 130 foot range increment.
Far Shot Feat: x1.5 (195 feet)
Distance weapon enhancement: x2 (390 feet)
Cragtop Archer feature, Arcing Shot: Max range = 15 range increments.

390 x 15 = 5850 feet. The earliest a character could get this is 10th level, so we're talking about a tenth level character that can shoot over a mile.

Advancing to 4th level Cragtop Archer (11th level character) for its Horizon Shot allows the character to make a full-round ranged attack "with no penalty for range."

If that's not a sniper, I don't know what is. He still needs a spotter or divination spell to see the target and aim right, but once that's done the target is pretty much screwed.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I love Cragtop Archer. You can make the range MUCH further, though. There was a thread on WotC's site exactly for this purpose. Also, Horizon Shot only lets you make 1 attack as a full round action, it's not quite as god as you're making it sound.

And only in super twisted "strict RAW with no room for sanity checks or RAI" is shooting a mile requiring of a spotter. You should be able to see a mile away just fine. Picking out targets would be tough, but I guess that's what 15 range increment penalties is supposed to simulate...

You do NOT need a spot check of 20 to see 200 feet away, you do not need a spot check of 200 to see 2000 ft away. Those rules are purely for spotting hiding creatures and (IMO) are very, very flawed even for that.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

I love Cragtop Archer. You can make the range MUCH further, though. There was a thread on WotC's site exactly for this purpose. Also, Horizon Shot only lets you make 1 attack as a full round action, it's not quite as god as you're making it sound.

And only in super twisted "strict RAW with no room for sanity checks or RAI" is shooting a mile requiring of a spotter. You should be able to see a mile away just fine. Picking out targets would be tough, but I guess that's what 15 range increment penalties is supposed to simulate...

You do NOT need a spot check of 20 to see 200 feet away, you do not need a spot check of 200 to see 2000 ft away. Those rules are purely for spotting hiding creatures and (IMO) are very, very flawed even for that.

Apologies for my ambiguous wording. I did mean to imply that the full-round action is still one shot. Depending on the conditions though (Spell Storing anyone?) it could easily be deadly.

And now that you mention it, the Cragtop Archer is only penalized -1 on spot checks for each range increment. A -15 is almost yawn-worthy in many cases.

 

[Tharkon]

You do NOT need a spot check of 20 to see 200 feet away, you do not need a spot check of 200 to see 2000 ft away. Those rules are purely for spotting hiding creatures and (IMO) are very, very flawed even for that.

Not hiding could equal, no ranks or synergy used, DEX = 0 and just size modifiers.
That would be DC 1 for a large creature, DC 5 for a medium creature, DC 9 for a small one, etc.
Cragtop archer has -1 per 20 feet. Let's assume 15 ranks and a +1 wisdom modifier. Taking 10 would then allow seeing a large creature at 500 feet distance, a medium creature at 420 feet distance, and a small one at 340 feet.

Not sure if these are realistic results though, cause if I would assume myself to be someone with +0 on spot checks. I think I can still see another person at 60 feet. Even though that would give me a 4 when taking 10 against DC 5.