Large party encounter suggestions

[lazerfish]

Though I'm a very experienced player and a fairly experienced DM, I've never found myself in the position I'm in now. I'm currently running a campaign for six players, four of whom are relatively new to the game. They're a 4th level party, and they're very combat oriented. Consisting of a goliath monk, catfolk scout, orc barbarian/dragon shaman, halfling druid, human cleric and human ranger, they're difficult to gauge in terms of what they can handle. They're all good players, but subtlety and finesse are not their strong suit.

I really need some help on creature selection and the right EL for them. I'm leaning towards an aberration heavy campaign, but I'm open to any ideas.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Up the number of monsters, not the CRs. A reasonably challenging encounter for this group would be two minotaurs (at cr4) for example.

 

[darthkilmor]

More monsters, not more powerful monsters, would be my suggestion. It'll probably take a few combats to get a handle on what they can and can't handle. I've got the same problem with my group. Some PC's can't be touched due to high AC, others could go from full health to dying in a single round.

 

[Piratecat]

What they said! And, most importantly, mix your type of monsters a bit. For instance, if you use hobgoblins, have several be brutish fighters, one or two archers who hang back, and one a shaman who uses spells on the high AC characters. That way everyone will have a good challenge.

 

[Darklone]

What they said! And, most importantly, mix your type of monsters a bit. For instance, if you use hobgoblins, have several be brutish fighters, one or two archers who hang back, and one a shaman who uses spells on the high AC characters. That way everyone will have a good challenge.

Hobgoblin fighters level 4 with tower shields and the two shieldmate feats from the MiniHB, two more fighters with longspears behind them and two or more archers with WS and Rapid Shot... Love those teams. Add one druid for ground control. Bugbear perhaps to keep the casting power in check.

Hobgoblins easily have str, dex, con 16.

 

[frankthedm]

Lots of mooks. Too few warm bodies will mean some of the players won't even get to kill anything. Also, it helps to balance out those who do too much damage or get too many attacks. The bulk of any humanid group should be 1st level warriors.

 

[Jack99]

Though I'm a very experienced player and a fairly experienced DM, I've never found myself in the position I'm in now. I'm currently running a campaign for six players, four of whom are relatively new to the game. They're a 4th level party, and they're very combat oriented. Consisting of a goliath monk, catfolk scout, orc barbarian/dragon shaman, halfling druid, human cleric and human ranger, they're difficult to gauge in terms of what they can handle. They're all good players, but subtlety and finesse are not their strong suit.

I really need some help on creature selection and the right EL for them. I'm leaning towards an aberration heavy campaign, but I'm open to any ideas.

I have 6 players. My encounters are built the following way:

- Normal encounter ECL = average party level +3-4, with at least 2 monsters as a minimum.

- "Boss" encounter ECL = average party level +5-6, again, always with at least 3 monsters making up the encounter.

For example at level 8, my players would run into ECL 12 encounters, each made up of at least 2 monsters, but more often up to 5-7 monsters of various levels. The big battle of this level will be a ECL 14 encounter, with 4 monsters.

YMMV

 

[akbearfoot]

I might recommend a little lower ECL for his group though. Since he said 4 of the 6 are relatively new to the game. My gaming group usually has 3 power-gamerish types (including myself) and 2-3 others who are much more casual and play more themed characters with less punch....ECLs of 3+ higher than us tend to be rather diffucult and the less 'beardy' characters end up getting into trouble.

That means they are more likely to miss taking strategic 5' steps, or doing more things that provoke AoOs, or remembering combat buffs etc....Especially since there is an aura class and a class with rage (ie fluctuating ability scores).

We just started an age of wyrms game with 2 warforged fighters, a shifter druid with the shapeshift variant, a human warblade(IH, WR), a sorcerer(blaster), and a half-drow cleric(eventual sovereign speaker). So yeah we're very melee heavy, especially with the eventual powerful white raven bonuses. Our DM will have the exact same problem as you.


And if all else fails....use swarms...melee groups SUCK against swarms.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A lesson I first learned in superhero rpgs: Mooks hurt.

Sure, you may be able to leap tall buildings in a single round, but when a small army is firing their blasters at you, SOMEBODY's getting a lucky shot in or two.

And anyone who knows about Tucker's Kobolds knows that this lesson translates into FRPGs just as well.

Another advantage to using large numbers of "lesser" opponents is this- if you're dealing with players who aren't 100% up to speed on the combat tactics that work in the game, its more believable if they break & run to regroup as opposed to some juggernaught who is waxing the floor with the party who suddenly breaks off the attack.

IOW, the benevolent hand of the DM won't be quite as apparent.

Also, if you routinely use larger groups of "lesser" opponents, you'll find it easier to salt the list of foes with the occasional ringer. After your Players have been wading through kobolds and goblins with relative ease for an encounter or two, it will come as a surprise when they meet the first ones who have "PC" levels in Barbarian or Fighter or a commander who is a spellcaster, etc.

IOW, its easier to ramp up the encounter difficulty in manageable chunks by using improved group members rather than adding a BIG critter or two.

 

[Shallown]

also another difference in a large group versus a small is actually putting players down, Not killing but knocking out puting them below one.

While I may run an encounter different in say a four man group trying to avoid disabling one character since going from full power to 75% hurts with that perhaps being 50% since one other party member will try to save, protect or restore the disabled character when that happens in a 6 player game it doesn't nearly have the same impact. I run an 8 person group and play in an 8 person group so I have some experience. if that means much to yea

Larger groups have the major advantage of many actions so single opponents are easily over whelmed versus multiple groups of bad guys. Like most have suggested throwing in more bad guys works better than more powerful bad guys. They don't have to be a s powerful either just a few more threats makes a difference. A few extra grunts or casters a few levels lower than the rest of the bad guys gives the group something else to worry about becuase all they see in the beggining is we have 20 goblins to fight not 12. Even if those extra 8 goblins are not much of a threat.

good luck

later