Large red dragon mini with only 5 fire resist...

[IanB]

For DDM, 5 is a lot of resistance (as it is in DR). Damage values tend to be lower in DDM than in regular D&D, so the Dragon might actually have DR 10 in the full 4e.

Note that damage will also be likely lessened in 4e compared to 3e.

Cheers!

Actually, I would expect per-attack damage to be increased in 4e, not decreased, assuming we adjust the baseline HPs to be the same. Characters will only be getting a single attack most of the time it sounds like, so it would make sense for individual hits to be relatively larger for the most part.

 

[frankthedm]

Erhm, first of all, resist 5 = immunity?

Second of all, isn't that dragon white?

Or am I missing something really obvious...

Well, i probably should have written it as: It is surprising to see a red dragon with only 5 fire resist when they used to be immune, but maybe that is just par for the course since wotc did say immunities were going to be rarer in 4e

No, it is red. Enlarging the image in paint lets one see it is has the features of a red dragon.

 

[Glyfair]

No, I've not played DDM at all - and considering the unanimous cheering happening here, I can reasonably assume that they didn't have a particularly, um, good use of morale

The main issue here is that the audience for DDM isn't really the wargaming crowd looking for a simple skirmish game. The audience is the D&D audience looking for a minis game.

As mentioned on the article, morale rules don't tend to get used in RPGs, even if they exist in the game. I have never seen the morale rules used in D&D during any edition (indeed, nor in any RPG).* Morale rules aren't something that roleplayers really want to deal with, in my experience.

* I have seen morale used, but solely as a DM roleplaying element. The DM decides when a group breaks and runs.

 

[Intrope]

Actually, I would expect per-attack damage to be increased in 4e, not decreased, assuming we adjust the baseline HPs to be the same. Characters will only be getting a single attack most of the time it sounds like, so it would make sense for individual hits to be relatively larger for the most part.

I'm expecting the reverse: per-attack damage to decrease noticeable in 4e. Mostly so that combats last longer!

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if the D&D rules gave it Fire Resistance 20; the Spined Devil has that much (and it used to be Immune, too). Maybe less, but I'm expecting 20.

 

[ObsidianCrane]

Hmm I'm fairly confident (though I have no proof) that DDM is a success because of its direct correlation to DnD. People buy the minis for DnD far more than DDM - I know a few folks who own a lot of the minis (including myself) that don't play, and never have, DDM.

As to the new DDM Rules the more I think about it the more I'm seeing the idea that DDM = Beginers DnD.

Its a pity there is only 5 minis in the starter - Large Green Dragon, Human Sellsword, Elf Warlock, Dwarf Battlemaster, and Exiled Drow Fighter (all are shown in the RB).

 

[Jack99]

Well, i probably should have written it as: It is surprising to see a red dragon with only 5 fire resist when they used to be immune, but maybe that is just par for the course since wotc did say immunities were going to be rarer in 4e

No, it is red. Enlarging the image in paint lets one see it is has the features of a red dragon.

Gotcha. And indeed, it has the features of a red dragon. Your post makes a whole lot of more sense now.

Cheers

 

[erf_beto]

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if the D&D rules gave it Fire Resistance 20; the Spined Devil has that much (and it used to be Immune, too). Maybe less, but I'm expecting 20.

Good call on the Spined Devil! I didn't remember that it does have Resist Fire 20. More than a red dragon!?!
Maybe it's a misprint (the Non-Oficial Errata said that the Spined Devil got out before they made the final adjustments - though I still think that meant text formating), or maybe its just another paradigm shift: dragons are more "mortal beings" than "lizard elementals", more "animal" and less "magical monster". OTOH, we have Devils akin to the Nine Hells, so playing nice with fire is their shtick...

Edit: just noticed the Spined Devil has Resist Fire 20 on both the DDM and D&D stats. That's odd. As others, I suspected the numbers would be different on each game...

 

[Derren]

I was always opposed to removing immunities. Its silly that you should be able to burn creatures linked so closely to fire (burn a fire elemental? Nonsense).

The standard rebuttal to this is "Should a Fire Giant survive being thrown into the sun?" I say yes. its a magical world after all (this ignores that the fire giant will likely by crushed by gravity and things like that).

 

[Brig]

Hmm I'm fairly confident (though I have no proof) that DDM is a success because of its direct correlation to DnD. People buy the minis for DnD far more than DDM - I know a few folks who own a lot of the minis (including myself) that don't play, and never have, DDM.

As to the new DDM Rules the more I think about it the more I'm seeing the idea that DDM = Beginers DnD.

Its a pity there is only 5 minis in the starter - Large Green Dragon, Human Sellsword, Elf Warlock, Dwarf Battlemaster, and Exiled Drow Fighter (all are shown in the RB).

Actually in terms of success I believe Ian is speaking of the amount of people that show up at DDM events. I believe 110 of the invitees from around the world (I believe there were around 150 invites) showed for the constructed championships at Gencon. Comparing that to the previous year where around 80 showed. I know there are a lot of people who purchase the miniatures that do not play the skirmish game but there are many who do play as well. Maybe not as many but they are there in force.

It isn't beginners D&D it is a skirmish game. I believe if you played the game even on a casual level you would see this. I know if you played it on a competitve tournament level you would see the differences and that it is a strategy game linked to D&D.

Also the starter has Yuan-Ti Swiftscale of the Exiled Drow Fighter.

 

[Neil Bishop]

This is one of the "small" things that could ensure I'll never even try 4E.

I've always been bothered by illogical monster design. For example, the balor only became immune to fire in 3.5E despite being surrounded by some pretty serious magical flames since 1E (and possibly earlier). AFAIC, the nightmare doesn't actually exist as its flaming hooves have burnt it to a crisp. Um, shouldn't a nightmare also have fire resistance at the very least?

I hope this is not a step backward in design logic simply as a result of wishing to bow at the nebulous altar of "game balance".