Large red dragon mini with only 5 fire resist...

[True_Blue]

This is one of the "small" things that could ensure I'll never even try 4E.

I've always been bothered by illogical monster design. For example, the balor only became immune to fire in 3.5E despite being surrounded by some pretty serious magical flames since 1E (and possibly earlier). AFAIC, the nightmare doesn't actually exist as its flaming hooves have burnt it to a crisp. Um, shouldn't a nightmare also have fire resistance at the very least?

A PC who has a magical flaming sword is immune to the fire that emmits from that sword. The same would be said about the Nightmare, he's immune to his own flames.

I'm happy with this explanation and think that it works great. May seem illogical to some, but to others it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Anthtriel]

The standard rebuttal to this is "Should a Fire Giant survive being thrown into the sun?" I say yes. its a magical world after all (this ignores that the fire giant will likely by crushed by gravity and things like that).

You say yes, I say no. That's what it comes down to.

Well, that and a slightly better game experience. Kicking immunity out means that fire abilities against that particular enemy are weaker, and not necessarily completely useless, so that a fire specialist can still do something against those kind of enemies. The same idea was later patched into the game with various methods to ignore fire immunity, i.e. sacred fire, hellfire and the like.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I was always opposed to removing immunities. Its silly that you should be able to burn creatures linked so closely to fire (burn a fire elemental? Nonsense).

The standard rebuttal to this is "Should a Fire Giant survive being thrown into the sun?" I say yes. its a magical world after all (this ignores that the fire giant will likely by crushed by gravity and things like that).

Humans are made of what - Carbon? Water? But are we immune to being exposed to large masses of it? (In fact, we can be killed even by very small amounts of it!)

I guess an Elemental exposed to the fire in a chimney or a camp fire wouldn't bother. But in the burning hotness of a sun or even just the fiery breath of a Red Dragon? He isn't so much as "damaged" but more "absorbed" - he becomes part of the bigger fire, and if he isn't strong enough, he loses himself completely to it. In 4E, fighting with fire might finally be viable...

That said, judging from the Fire Archon article, I'd say that Elements aren't as "pure" as they used to be. They still have discernibale features and even use equipment. Looks to me as if there is actually some substance to hurt. It's not that different from what we have now, because - how do you "kill" air? Certainly not with some powerful sword stabs!

 

[Derren]

Humans are made of what - Carbon? Water? But are we immune to being exposed to large masses of it? (In fact, we can be killed even by very small amounts of it!)

I don't know about you, but my hand does not fall of when it gets wet and I can also pick up a coal brick without any ill effects.
Thats the stuff we are talking about. Exposure, not ingestion. And when someone is hit by a spike made out of carbon which travels at 200 mph into the head the fact that the spike is made out of carbon certainly isn't the thing which makes this deadly.

 

[GreatLemur]

I don't know about you, but my hand does not fall of when it gets wet and I can also pick up a coal brick without any ill effects.
Thats the stuff we are talking about. Exposure, not ingestion. And when someone is hit by a spike made out of carbon which travels at 200 mph into the head the fact that the spike is made out of carbon certainly isn't the thing which makes this deadly.

I don't think mere "exposure" really describes what happens when a spell of breath weapon hits a creature. That's not just an environmental change, but an attack. I think burning fire elementals is a bit silly, myself, but I can buy the idea of a red dragon's breath simply tearing one apart. I'll have to wait and see if the mechanics really support that angle, though.

 

[Wulfram]

As long as the dragon can't kill itself by incautious sneezing, I don't mind.

Fire Elementals on the other hand, really should be fire immune IMO.

 

[True_Blue]

I would like dragons not to have full immunity just because i'd like to see dragons of the same color be able to harm eachother with their BW's. I know the original red dragon article a long time ago talked about them scouring off some of the fire resistance, but I want a Blue Dragon to be able to hurt another Blue Dragon with their BW if they are powerful enough, a Gold Dragon be able to hurt a Red Dragon with their BW, etc.

It seems to make more sense to me. A little bit of resistance is good, full blown immunity is not in my opinion. I guess a great wyrm could possibly end up getting Immunity... maybe I'd be all right with that. But I want immunities to be rare.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A blast of water can seriously hurt you. Fire could be as substancial to fire creatures as water is to us (they are actually made of it). So beeing caught in an explosion (which is more impact than fire anyway) yould actually hurt them. Wading through a normal fire however will be like swimming in water for us.

And an example I already used: In a forgotten realms book, an enlarged ancient red dragon blasts itself into oblivion with his own breath weapon (which ignited some rotting gases). So this is nothing new to D&D

I am very much for a resistance x fire instead of immunity, and IIRC they said something, that you maybe get full damage if damage exceeds x. Of course, x should be higher than five on an ancient red dragon, but an ancient red dragon is rather colossal than large and would cost all of your warband building points or whatever it is called.

Large Red dragon would be one of the youngest available dragon in 4e (since they eliminated wyrmlings)...

 

[Derren]

I want a Blue Dragon to be able to hurt another Blue Dragon with their BW if they are powerful enough, a Gold Dragon be able to hurt a Red Dragon with their BW, etc.

That is silly. If a blue dragon can hurt another blue dragon with its breath weapon it also mean that it will hurt itself with its breath weapon.

A blast of water can seriously hurt you.

But its not the water which hurts you but the blast/force of impact. Replace the water with any other (non harmful) liquid and you still have the same effect.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That is silly. If a blue dragon can hurt another blue dragon with its breath weapon it also mean that it will hurt itself with its breath weapon.

Is an electric eel immune to being electrocuted?