Zardnaar
Legend
I have in previous threads been somewhat negative to the way 5E is designed in regards to encounters due to things like care bear healing rates and how you die in the game. Or more likely do not die.
Last night my PCs hit level 6 and after following some advice on the forums, some more experience with the game and reading LMoP closely I have come to the following conclusions.
1. Limit the amount of short rests the PCs have. This means time limits on adventures or at least give them the perception if they short rest to much the adventure gets hard even if it doesn't have a time liit. Example if they go into the dungeon and retire for an hour or use rope trick monsters redeploy if they notice dead friends. Last night I managed to restrict them to only 1 short rest as I did have a vague time limit for the PCs.
2. Encounter numbers. More encounters the better, this added almost 2 hours onto the session though. One can always split the adventuring day over several sessions but I prefer not to do that as people lose track of things like spells, hit points etc. YOu would think PCs should write most of that down but not all the time.
3. Encounter design. I was using large numbers of deadly and hard encounters, this week I went easy on them and used medium, medium, hard and deadly encounters with the next 2 planned encounters also being deadly. I often drop large numbers of CR 1/8-1 critters into an encounter to draw out AoE spells. My PCs are level 6 and will generally fireball Hobgoblins. Some encounters were very spell caster heavy (8 acolytes, 4 priests) so PCs get hit with bane, NPCs get blessed and barrages of guiding bolts and inflict wounds up close start to hurt. Some PCs are starting to regret cha dump stats for example thank you Bane.
4. Fudge it. I ignore the rules about xp multipliers for group size. My group has so many AoE effects it doesn't matter.
5. Look for synergies in NPC abilities. Partly related to encounter design but just basic things like a Hobgoblin Captain being able to give his troops +1d4 to hit that can't be interrupted like a bless spell. The knight can also make a decent commander. Consider Gnolls and Hobgoblins under the command of such a figure or 2 or 3.
6. Custom monsters. Change spell lists, refluff, tweak a monster by swapping out an ability and give them another ability.
7. Be mean hit the PCs on the ground when they are unconscious. This will usually make them panic and draw out healing words off the clerics.
Put simply you have to grind the PCs hit points and spells down. Most of this is not that different than other versions of D&D. The downside is this means 5E does not support some play styles and adventure scenarios very well. You have to more or less play heavy combat scenarios and perhaps metagame against them via limiting short rests.
For example here is my scenario from last night. Threshold is under threat via a 2000 strong army advancing on the town. I originally wanted to rail road the PCs a little bit and destroy the town but thought I should give them the chance to save the town via a battle. In 2E for example I would probably throw waves of NPCs at them and call the results at the end. In his one here I thought I would add a mini game to the session and narrate the story that way.
To win the battle of Threshold they had collect victory points (VPs). 15 Victory points were required to win the scenario. What happens to threshold depends on the amount of victory points they get. 14 victory points for example means they lose and the town is captured. 5 or less means the town is plundered and pillaged. I got the victory point idea from the Savage Tide Adventure Path and the Kingmaker Adventure path as I have been rereading classic modules and some Paizo APs and Dungeon magazines for inspiration.
The 1st 1/3rd of the session was role playing. They had several days to prepare for the assault and they picked up 2 VPs I had built into the scenario by recruiting additional forces from friendly NPCs they had met in previous adventures. They hired some mercs and offered concessions to the Knights of Vanya to build a chapter house in Threshold. One PC was also appointed as a general and he got the Mayor to mobilise the townfolk into a milita and break the dam near Threshold to cause surface flooding. I ad hoced +2 VPs for those ideas. This was the planned VPs the players could collect.
To win the Battle of Threshold the PCs must collect 15 victory points. The following events grant victory points
Summoning Adamathia +5 VP
Killing or neutralising Lady Tera +3 VP
Killing or Neutralising Lord Hadrumat +3 VP
Neutralising both Dragonlords +2 VP
Winning encounters 1-4 1VP Each
Keeping Tiamat’s army outside Threshold +5 VP
Recruiting the Elves +1 VP
Recruiting the Knights of Vanya +1 VP
As per usual the army came in from the hills and camped outside the walls. They started to create a racket outside the walls and after an hour or so a fogbank rolled in from the lake which they suspected was magical. They made a DC 15 perception check and noticed drums being played out on the river/lake. Tiamats forces were using long boats to bypass the towns walls. I planned on 4 encounters through the city streets with a floating encounter using an NPC assassins from the HotDQ supplement to annoy them at the right times. Each encounter was worth +1VP and once they got to 7 I described how they were managing to turn the tide for the battle of the lower city. The Dwarven Caravan was in town and they were helping out to so I had Dwarven Battleragers in the back ground gaxing Dragonborn patrols. This was mostly for flavour reasons and to narrate the effects of the PCs organising the town defences earlier in the session. The encounters I used for 5 5th level PCs.
6 Berserker 2700xp, page 6 HotDQ
4 priests, 8 enforcers (acolytes in chainmail), 8 cultists
Hobgoblin Captain
10 Hobgoblins
4 Dragonborn Soldiers (refluffed DB berzerkers in heavy armour + gnoll ability)
8 Dragonborn soldiers
After these enconters the PCs were heavily tapped as the dice rolls had gone against them a bit. Thee war cleric saved the party bacon in the 4th encounter but had to nova off to do it. Automatic damage and lots of it even for small amounts of damage adds up (DB breath weapons).
I had planned on the PCs taking a short rest around about now. THey also captured some boats off Tiamats army. They got summoned to the Mayors office and he presented them with a magic horn that was supposed to summon an ancient protector of Threshold. He did not know what that protector was only that the horn had to be sounded at the moon pool on the island of the Moon in the lake. I had two more deadly encounters planned but the PCs had taken a rougher time earlier than anticipated.
The 5th encounter was going to be a naval battle in the lake enshrouded in mist. I forgot one of the PCs had the sailor back ground to I allowed him a "stealth" check using his proficiency modifier on an intelligence roll to slip by the other boat. 1 PC did point out it seemed unrealistic but smugglers used a similar trick in the Napoleonic wars so I thought it was plausible and allowed a DC 15 roll and they avoided encounter 5 as they heard the NPCs talking as well and one of them said something about using a fireball spell. Later on I awarded them full xp for this encounter as it was both clever, tied into the PCs back ground, advanced the story and was relevant to the success of tonight’s session.
This is what they bypassed
4 priests
1 Mage
3 Dragonborn soldiers
Cultists 16 (oarsmen)
So they eventually made it to the Isle of the Moon which was a sacred spot to Desna (Golarion moon goddess). I had intended on this to be a deadly fight against the forces of evil but once again the PCs got creative. The mist Tiamats faith conjured up allowed the Ranger to use her racial ability to make stealth checks. She also cast pass without trace which apparently gives someone +10 on stealth checks. I should probably check that spell effect. The spell also effects other party members.
With +17 on her stealth role she scouts the ruins I put on the island and where the Dragonlord and his forces are searching for secret doors etc. She found a dried up old fountain leaking water and investigates it. I get her to make a intelligence saving throw as the fountain actually was working but an illusion spell covered the moonpool. The leaking water part was a clue I put in there for them.
She went back and told the PCs what she had seen and the PCs wanted to investigate more. They had a potion of invisibility the Gnome wizard quaffs and he wanders off with a +13 stealth check and investigates the fountain and makes his saving throw and finds the moonpool. he decides to bail while the Ranger gets in the pool, sounds the horn and then hides in the mist again.
The horn breaks the stasis effect Thresholds protector was under. A few rounds later Adamathia turns up (+5VPs). Adamathis being a rather huge Silver Dragon (refluffed ancient red dragon with frost breath weapon). The PCs had also kept Tiamts cult outside the walls which was a further +5 VP and Adamathia killed the Dragonlord Hadrumet as well (+3VPs) all the PCs heard was screams, a roar, the sound of a breathe weapon and ran over to help only to find Hadrumet looking frightened to death and frozen solid.
Encounter 6 the PCs avoided.
12 Zombies
Lord Hadrumet (level 9 12HD priest)
6 DB troopers
And after that they all drunk from the fountain as it was magical. Roll a 1d6 for effect.
1. Healed of 1d8+4 hit points
2. Healed of 2d8+4 hit points
3. Gains the use of the eldritch blast cantrip for 24/hrs
4. Gains the benefit of a bless spell for 24/hours
5. Gains the benefit of a guidance spell for 24 hours
6. Lowest ability score increases by 1d4 points permanently
Fountain only works once per person.
As to the battle it was getting late -almost midnight on a work night with several members having 7am starts. But the PCs got the following VPs.
Preparations 4
Combat 4
Keeping Tiamats forces outside Thresholds walls +5
Summining Adamathia +5
Killing Hadrumet (via Adamathia) +3
What I did not tell the PCs was time was a factor. Each short rest gave the opposing army time to build ladders etc. -1 VP per short rest. The PCs only had 1 though
-1 VP
2o VPs. 15 was the magic number, looks like Tiamats forces are getting routed as Adamathia + a charge from Threshold and dead leaders should probably rout the army. Bonus xp was awarded for role playing, mission success, and creative use of abilities for the last 2 encounters.
Overall it seems we had a great session that went 2 hours over the planned finish time due to demand. One of the players wants to DM/take over the campaign and they want to play again on Sunday where I was planning on starting a lvl 1 Pathfinder AP. I knid of want to run LMoP myself. I think I stumbled onto a good way to pace the party and had a great session combining elements from OSR gaming and Paizo APs. Things the PCs liked.
1. Full xp for non combat stuff awarded.
2. The victory point system I used inspired from Paizo adventures.
3. Tying the VP to various things the PCs could do.
4. Ad hoc xp/VPs awarded for PC actions.
5. Setting up a scenario where the Wood Elf Ranger could use her racial ability (by mistake I did not think of that)
6. Being able to use a back ground for an ad hoc intelligence check to avoid combat
7. Being creative in the final encounter.
8. Being able to use an NPC Dragon to do their dirty work for them. Said Dragon only got involved due to PC actions so no deus ex machina.
I'm also trying to make it more D&D than D&D so heavy use of Mystara/Greyhawk elements and such things like Tiamats cult, Dragons (they have encountered 3 so far), magical fountains (OSR), and later on things like the Dragon Orbs, and the Vecna artifacts. They also kkind of surprised me with the way they handled the last 2 encounters as the dice rolls went against them a lot earlier and they depleted their healing and did not want to short rest to much.
Last night my PCs hit level 6 and after following some advice on the forums, some more experience with the game and reading LMoP closely I have come to the following conclusions.
1. Limit the amount of short rests the PCs have. This means time limits on adventures or at least give them the perception if they short rest to much the adventure gets hard even if it doesn't have a time liit. Example if they go into the dungeon and retire for an hour or use rope trick monsters redeploy if they notice dead friends. Last night I managed to restrict them to only 1 short rest as I did have a vague time limit for the PCs.
2. Encounter numbers. More encounters the better, this added almost 2 hours onto the session though. One can always split the adventuring day over several sessions but I prefer not to do that as people lose track of things like spells, hit points etc. YOu would think PCs should write most of that down but not all the time.
3. Encounter design. I was using large numbers of deadly and hard encounters, this week I went easy on them and used medium, medium, hard and deadly encounters with the next 2 planned encounters also being deadly. I often drop large numbers of CR 1/8-1 critters into an encounter to draw out AoE spells. My PCs are level 6 and will generally fireball Hobgoblins. Some encounters were very spell caster heavy (8 acolytes, 4 priests) so PCs get hit with bane, NPCs get blessed and barrages of guiding bolts and inflict wounds up close start to hurt. Some PCs are starting to regret cha dump stats for example thank you Bane.
4. Fudge it. I ignore the rules about xp multipliers for group size. My group has so many AoE effects it doesn't matter.
5. Look for synergies in NPC abilities. Partly related to encounter design but just basic things like a Hobgoblin Captain being able to give his troops +1d4 to hit that can't be interrupted like a bless spell. The knight can also make a decent commander. Consider Gnolls and Hobgoblins under the command of such a figure or 2 or 3.
6. Custom monsters. Change spell lists, refluff, tweak a monster by swapping out an ability and give them another ability.
7. Be mean hit the PCs on the ground when they are unconscious. This will usually make them panic and draw out healing words off the clerics.
Put simply you have to grind the PCs hit points and spells down. Most of this is not that different than other versions of D&D. The downside is this means 5E does not support some play styles and adventure scenarios very well. You have to more or less play heavy combat scenarios and perhaps metagame against them via limiting short rests.
For example here is my scenario from last night. Threshold is under threat via a 2000 strong army advancing on the town. I originally wanted to rail road the PCs a little bit and destroy the town but thought I should give them the chance to save the town via a battle. In 2E for example I would probably throw waves of NPCs at them and call the results at the end. In his one here I thought I would add a mini game to the session and narrate the story that way.
To win the battle of Threshold they had collect victory points (VPs). 15 Victory points were required to win the scenario. What happens to threshold depends on the amount of victory points they get. 14 victory points for example means they lose and the town is captured. 5 or less means the town is plundered and pillaged. I got the victory point idea from the Savage Tide Adventure Path and the Kingmaker Adventure path as I have been rereading classic modules and some Paizo APs and Dungeon magazines for inspiration.
The 1st 1/3rd of the session was role playing. They had several days to prepare for the assault and they picked up 2 VPs I had built into the scenario by recruiting additional forces from friendly NPCs they had met in previous adventures. They hired some mercs and offered concessions to the Knights of Vanya to build a chapter house in Threshold. One PC was also appointed as a general and he got the Mayor to mobilise the townfolk into a milita and break the dam near Threshold to cause surface flooding. I ad hoced +2 VPs for those ideas. This was the planned VPs the players could collect.
To win the Battle of Threshold the PCs must collect 15 victory points. The following events grant victory points
Summoning Adamathia +5 VP
Killing or neutralising Lady Tera +3 VP
Killing or Neutralising Lord Hadrumat +3 VP
Neutralising both Dragonlords +2 VP
Winning encounters 1-4 1VP Each
Keeping Tiamat’s army outside Threshold +5 VP
Recruiting the Elves +1 VP
Recruiting the Knights of Vanya +1 VP
As per usual the army came in from the hills and camped outside the walls. They started to create a racket outside the walls and after an hour or so a fogbank rolled in from the lake which they suspected was magical. They made a DC 15 perception check and noticed drums being played out on the river/lake. Tiamats forces were using long boats to bypass the towns walls. I planned on 4 encounters through the city streets with a floating encounter using an NPC assassins from the HotDQ supplement to annoy them at the right times. Each encounter was worth +1VP and once they got to 7 I described how they were managing to turn the tide for the battle of the lower city. The Dwarven Caravan was in town and they were helping out to so I had Dwarven Battleragers in the back ground gaxing Dragonborn patrols. This was mostly for flavour reasons and to narrate the effects of the PCs organising the town defences earlier in the session. The encounters I used for 5 5th level PCs.
6 Berserker 2700xp, page 6 HotDQ
4 priests, 8 enforcers (acolytes in chainmail), 8 cultists
Hobgoblin Captain
10 Hobgoblins
4 Dragonborn Soldiers (refluffed DB berzerkers in heavy armour + gnoll ability)
8 Dragonborn soldiers
After these enconters the PCs were heavily tapped as the dice rolls had gone against them a bit. Thee war cleric saved the party bacon in the 4th encounter but had to nova off to do it. Automatic damage and lots of it even for small amounts of damage adds up (DB breath weapons).
I had planned on the PCs taking a short rest around about now. THey also captured some boats off Tiamats army. They got summoned to the Mayors office and he presented them with a magic horn that was supposed to summon an ancient protector of Threshold. He did not know what that protector was only that the horn had to be sounded at the moon pool on the island of the Moon in the lake. I had two more deadly encounters planned but the PCs had taken a rougher time earlier than anticipated.
The 5th encounter was going to be a naval battle in the lake enshrouded in mist. I forgot one of the PCs had the sailor back ground to I allowed him a "stealth" check using his proficiency modifier on an intelligence roll to slip by the other boat. 1 PC did point out it seemed unrealistic but smugglers used a similar trick in the Napoleonic wars so I thought it was plausible and allowed a DC 15 roll and they avoided encounter 5 as they heard the NPCs talking as well and one of them said something about using a fireball spell. Later on I awarded them full xp for this encounter as it was both clever, tied into the PCs back ground, advanced the story and was relevant to the success of tonight’s session.
This is what they bypassed
4 priests
1 Mage
3 Dragonborn soldiers
Cultists 16 (oarsmen)
So they eventually made it to the Isle of the Moon which was a sacred spot to Desna (Golarion moon goddess). I had intended on this to be a deadly fight against the forces of evil but once again the PCs got creative. The mist Tiamats faith conjured up allowed the Ranger to use her racial ability to make stealth checks. She also cast pass without trace which apparently gives someone +10 on stealth checks. I should probably check that spell effect. The spell also effects other party members.
With +17 on her stealth role she scouts the ruins I put on the island and where the Dragonlord and his forces are searching for secret doors etc. She found a dried up old fountain leaking water and investigates it. I get her to make a intelligence saving throw as the fountain actually was working but an illusion spell covered the moonpool. The leaking water part was a clue I put in there for them.
She went back and told the PCs what she had seen and the PCs wanted to investigate more. They had a potion of invisibility the Gnome wizard quaffs and he wanders off with a +13 stealth check and investigates the fountain and makes his saving throw and finds the moonpool. he decides to bail while the Ranger gets in the pool, sounds the horn and then hides in the mist again.
The horn breaks the stasis effect Thresholds protector was under. A few rounds later Adamathia turns up (+5VPs). Adamathis being a rather huge Silver Dragon (refluffed ancient red dragon with frost breath weapon). The PCs had also kept Tiamts cult outside the walls which was a further +5 VP and Adamathia killed the Dragonlord Hadrumet as well (+3VPs) all the PCs heard was screams, a roar, the sound of a breathe weapon and ran over to help only to find Hadrumet looking frightened to death and frozen solid.
Encounter 6 the PCs avoided.
12 Zombies
Lord Hadrumet (level 9 12HD priest)
6 DB troopers
And after that they all drunk from the fountain as it was magical. Roll a 1d6 for effect.
1. Healed of 1d8+4 hit points
2. Healed of 2d8+4 hit points
3. Gains the use of the eldritch blast cantrip for 24/hrs
4. Gains the benefit of a bless spell for 24/hours
5. Gains the benefit of a guidance spell for 24 hours
6. Lowest ability score increases by 1d4 points permanently
Fountain only works once per person.
As to the battle it was getting late -almost midnight on a work night with several members having 7am starts. But the PCs got the following VPs.
Preparations 4
Combat 4
Keeping Tiamats forces outside Thresholds walls +5
Summining Adamathia +5
Killing Hadrumet (via Adamathia) +3
What I did not tell the PCs was time was a factor. Each short rest gave the opposing army time to build ladders etc. -1 VP per short rest. The PCs only had 1 though
-1 VP
2o VPs. 15 was the magic number, looks like Tiamats forces are getting routed as Adamathia + a charge from Threshold and dead leaders should probably rout the army. Bonus xp was awarded for role playing, mission success, and creative use of abilities for the last 2 encounters.
Overall it seems we had a great session that went 2 hours over the planned finish time due to demand. One of the players wants to DM/take over the campaign and they want to play again on Sunday where I was planning on starting a lvl 1 Pathfinder AP. I knid of want to run LMoP myself. I think I stumbled onto a good way to pace the party and had a great session combining elements from OSR gaming and Paizo APs. Things the PCs liked.
1. Full xp for non combat stuff awarded.
2. The victory point system I used inspired from Paizo adventures.
3. Tying the VP to various things the PCs could do.
4. Ad hoc xp/VPs awarded for PC actions.
5. Setting up a scenario where the Wood Elf Ranger could use her racial ability (by mistake I did not think of that)
6. Being able to use a back ground for an ad hoc intelligence check to avoid combat
7. Being creative in the final encounter.
8. Being able to use an NPC Dragon to do their dirty work for them. Said Dragon only got involved due to PC actions so no deus ex machina.
I'm also trying to make it more D&D than D&D so heavy use of Mystara/Greyhawk elements and such things like Tiamats cult, Dragons (they have encountered 3 so far), magical fountains (OSR), and later on things like the Dragon Orbs, and the Vecna artifacts. They also kkind of surprised me with the way they handled the last 2 encounters as the dice rolls went against them a lot earlier and they depleted their healing and did not want to short rest to much.
