Lava - What is it?

[Deset Gled]

Generally speaking being frozen requires being really realy cold.

Depends on your definition of "frozen". From a scientific standpoint, the freezing point is the temperature at which a material changes from a liquid to a solid. Hence, any solid form of earth or stone is already frozen. From a laymans standpoint, frozen just means really cold (typically, below the freezing point of water).

Is there any precedent in Frostburn that would tell us which definition they're using?

 

[werk]

There's a spell (from Frostburn, of course!) called flash-freeze (p. 94) that only affects earth, stone, and water so I'm contemplating whether to allow it to affect lava.

IMHO, of course...

Given: It's a spell that freezes things and specifically doesn't work on fire.
It does work on stone, but not on fire.

I'd like to suggest that the reason the spell does not work on fire is because it is hot, and this spell uses cold, so while the spell is enough to freeze most things, it is not enough to freeze really, really hot things...like lava.





Molten (a term used for materials that are normally solid that have been made liquid.)
Frozen(a term used for materials that are normally liquid that have been made solid.)

They are relative terms, I'd stick with liquid and solid, for simplicity and clarity.

 

[lukelightning]

I'd let that freezing spell work on lava; after all, it is stone, and encountering lava while just happening to have this spell is probably an incredibly rare occurence.

The frozen lava might melt slowly, perhaps giving you enough time to cross the lava flow or something.

 

[Nail]

oh for heaven's sake....post the spell text already!

Here's the spell:

Flash-Freeze
Transmutation [Earth, Cold]
Level: Druid 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/2 levels)
Area: 10-ft square/level
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

All earth, stone, and water in the spell's area is drained of heat. Earth, mud, and stone become everfrost and water freezes. You affect a 10-foot-square area to a depth of 1 foot. Magical, enchanted, dressed, or worked stone cannot be affected. Earth, stone, or water creatures are not affected.

This spell can be used to create small icebergs in large bodies of water. these icebergs float, but are extremely slippery and unstable, requireing a DC 15 Balance check per round to stay on the iceberg. Icebergs may be propelled through the water by the current, paddling, or other means.

 

[Nail]

Now that someone's posted the spell text, we can answer the questions! (Funny how reading the spell helps....)

Does it freeze lava? Yes, since lava is earth.

To what temperature does it bring the former lava (now rock)? Since it's "drained of heat", we can guess it's now pretty darn cold...perhaps even (surprise!) freezing?

What does "freezing" mean, anway? A sufficiently low temperature to make "everfrost". Below the freezing point of water, perhaps?

Geeeesh! So many are "shooting from the hip", I'm surprised no one's lost a foot yet!

 

[James McMurray]

Is there any precedent in Frostburn that would tell us which definition they're using?

You mean apart from the fact that the book is entitled Frostburn and almost totally devoted to really cold people, places, and things?

 

[BASHMAN]

I voted for the Earth/Stone thing, but water should not be on that list.

The density of Lava is many times greater than that of water.

Since the human body is around the same density as water (actually a little less), this is why we can float or swim downward in water.

In lava, even a person with immunity to fire damage would not be able to "swim"-- they would be able to walk on top, as long as the lava were not moving. If it were moving, they'd begin to become stuck in it and eventually buried.

I would rule this as being entangled for 2 rounds, followed by being immobilized for 2 more rounds (unless they can make a difficult STR check and have a rope and grappler or something to pull themself out), and after that, they begin being smothered by the lava, in which case I would use the drowning rules.

 

[Nail]

Is there any precedent in Frostburn that would tell us which definition they're using?

The spell uses the term "everfrost" to define the new temperature of the ground. FYI: "Everfrost" effectively means "well below the freezing point of water".

 

[BASHMAN]

Regarding the spell, as the DM, I would invoke the rule of common sense (don't bother looking-- it's not in the book). The rule of common sense is also immune to the munchkin's pleas of "but that's not what the rule says". Common sense trumps poorly written rules from books that were hurried into production for WOTC to make more money.

That spell was intended to drain heat from a regular rock to turn it freezing. It was not intended to turn lava into a layer of permafrost in 1 second.

What I would do as a DM, would be to say that the affected area of lava INSTANTLY cools to be hardened to a depth of 1 foot, and that anyone standing on it will take only 1/3 the fire damage from the ambient heat of the lava just below the lava rock created by the spell. The effect of the spell will begin to be undone in a matter of minutes (maybe 1 minute/caster level) as the lava below melts the hardened rock above it.

If the player whined in the slightest, I would immediately change my decision to be that the spell cannot affect lava, and do so retroactively.

 

[Nail]

That spell was intended to drain heat from a regular rock to turn it freezing. It was not intended to turn lava into a layer of permafrost in 1 second.

Why is that common sensical?

What does your common sense tell you of the designer's intensions?