Lava - What is it?

[lukelightning]

Situation: Party is running through caves to escape Defeated-BBEG-Initiated-Collapse. They find that their path is blocked by a 30' wide lava flow.

Druid: I just happen to have flash-freeze prepared! I freeze a block of lava that we can use as "stepping stone!" *casts spell*

Then the party proceeds to run and jump onto the block of stone.

DM: Make a balance check to stay on...the surface is frozen and covered in condensed ice!

 

[Nail]

Situation: Party is running through caves to escape Defeated-BBEG-Initiated-Collapse....

What level is that spell, BTW. My PC wants it.

 

[sirwmholder]

Regarding the spell, as the DM, I would invoke the rule of common sense (don't bother looking-- it's not in the book). The rule of common sense is also immune to the munchkin's pleas of "but that's not what the rule says". Common sense trumps poorly written rules from books that were hurried into production for WOTC to make more money.

That spell was intended to drain heat from a regular rock to turn it freezing. It was not intended to turn lava into a layer of permafrost in 1 second.

What I would do as a DM, would be to say that the affected area of lava INSTANTLY cools to be hardened to a depth of 1 foot, and that anyone standing on it will take only 1/3 the fire damage from the ambient heat of the lava just below the lava rock created by the spell. The effect of the spell will begin to be undone in a matter of minutes (maybe 1 minute/caster level) as the lava below melts the hardened rock above it.

If the player whined in the slightest, I would immediately change my decision to be that the spell cannot affect lava, and do so retroactively.

QFT

William Holder

 

[YourSwordIsMine]

uhm...

While I like the idea of using the spell to create say a temporary bridge accross a river of lava my mind still has issues with the fact that extreme temerature changes usually have interesting effects... explosive effects...

 

[James McMurray]

uhm...

While I like the idea of using the spell to create say a temporary bridge accross a river of lava my mind still has issues with the fact that extreme temerature changes usually have interesting effects... explosive effects...

Not in D&D.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

While I like the idea of using the spell to create say a temporary bridge accross a river of lava my mind still has issues with the fact that extreme temerature changes usually have interesting effects... explosive effects...

Well, yeah. If we apply the common physical laws that prevent things like ... oh, say ... magic in the first place?

What I would do as a DM, would be to say that the affected area of lava INSTANTLY cools to be hardened to a depth of 1 foot, and that anyone standing on it will take only 1/3 the fire damage from the ambient heat of the lava just below the lava rock created by the spell. The effect of the spell will begin to be undone in a matter of minutes (maybe 1 minute/caster level) as the lava below melts the hardened rock above it.

The problem with the common sense argument is that if you use common sense to make a ruling that involves more than just a situational explanation (like "the lava freezes over for 1 round and then the party only takes 1/3 of the heat damage" instead of just "the lava freezes") is now you have to remember that common sense ruling details. Personally, I don't find anything particularily common sense about 1/3 the damage as opposed to 1/2 the damage or even 3/10 the damage. Not trying to be picky, but I find that common sense rulings are best left vague.

Common sense would indicate that it doesn't work. That's the common sense ruling.

By the rules, I am torn to know if it actually works. Because in my world, lava is both earth and fire. Thus, it should be able to target the earth part.

However, the specific example seems to indicate that this spell was intended to not be all that powerful. Making iceburgs in water is much different than making stepping stones in lava. Given their example, I would easily say that the common sense ruling is "Sorry, spell fails because it cannot affect fire."

I hate it when people say any animated matter is an elemental

I don't think anyone actually said that lave is an elemental here. What people did do is use the resources to indicate that elementals made out of lava are considered both fire and earth. But nobody ever claimed that all lava is an elemental!

 

[Nonlethal Force]

On second thought, there is no way I would let this work. Here's my game-balance related reason:

Complete Arcane has a spell called Transmute Rock to Lava. Essentially, its the reverse of what is being argued here. It makes rock turn into lava (Hence the name!). It affects a single 10 foot cube. And do you know what spell level the game designers thought it to be at? 9th. Now, I realize that it is not 9th level because it takes much power to transmute rock to lava. It is actually 9th because of the 20d6 damage per round taken by anyone who cannot get out of the lava. That makes sense.

The reason I wouldn't allow the frostburn spell to work on lava is because you areessentially allowing a 2nd(?) level spell to counter a 9th level spell ... and the lower level spell has nothing to do with the Dispel magic spell chain!

I know there are spells that counter each other and they aren't always equal in level. But 2nd to 9th just seems a bit much to me.

Common sense ruling still seems to me to be: Nope. Doesn't work.

 

[James McMurray]

See Invisibility counters Greater Invisibility. Lower level spells countering higher level spells happens all the time, and isn't broken in the slightest. If that druid is lucky enough to have memorized a relatively pointless spell like Flashfreeze when the opposing 17th level spellcaster tosses out a Transmute Rock to Lava, let him have his day in the sun (assuming he can still cast that spell while taking continuing lava damage).

 

[IcyCool]

I'd consider lava both [Earth] and [Fire] types - if necessary for matching with effects ..

In other words .. for that spell you mention .. yes, it would work because lava is an [Earth] effect ... (it's also fire, but you're spell doesn't care about that ..)

By also being a [Fire] affect, it would also affect a [Cold-subtype] appropriately ...

That makes the most sense to me ...

Ditto The_Ditto.

The spell freezes a relatively small block of lava. Of course, if there is more lava around and underneath, that block won't remain frozen for very long at all.

 

[IcyCool]

What level is that spell, BTW. My PC wants it.

It's not a spell, it's a "Load-Bearing Boss". They are all over in movies.