Law chaos and honesty in the Savage Tide (no spoilers)

[Umbran]

Nope, form can go jump in a lake. Ellie is not feeling socially snubbed, she is feeling that a practical setup is going to sailor boy's head and he is having delusions of authority where he does not in fact possess it.

Doesn't he, though? The crew and passengers think he's the captain, right? So if you gave an order, they'd always look to him to see if they should follow it, right? That's authority.

If you go around trying to quiety tell members of the crew that the captain is not, in fact, in control, don't be surprised if they accuse you of trying to mutiny against the rightful captain of the ship

You may claim that he doesn't have authority to make decisions for the rest of the party, but that's a separate issue. The ship and the crew is a resource - you've given him command of that resource which he is supposed to use for the good of the party. Much like the party might agree that he's the one to have a powerful magic sword.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

It seems to me that you've delegated the authority and just haven't yet fully realized that in fact that you have. Likewise, you seem to think that 'form' has no power, and in fact in the absence of contridicting evidence, form is considered the thing itself.

No, Ellie is entirely aware of what authority she has and hasn't delegated. The problem is when more authority is taken than was actually delegated.

Would you look up the terms 'sailing master' and 'captain' with respect to the merchant marine in say wiki, and then get back to me on that.

No, I don't think I will, but thanks.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

If you go around trying to quiety tell members of the crew that the captain is not, in fact, in control, don't be surprised if they accuse you of trying to mutiny against the rightful captain of the ship

Sounds like fun. That is quite possible, at which point the captain will either tell them "no, that's true" or there will be a resettling of roles within the party.

My feeling is, if we agree to an order of authority within the party and he tries to take more, he is closer to "mutinying" than the party members who remember what we agreed to. If the crew's perceptions interfere with that, we may need to recrew with a more honest attitude.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

Speaking as a player who's had characters on both sides simultaneously (Chaotic and a Captain), you have to realize that keeping things running smoothly on the ship isn't non-Chaotic.

Look, to the crew, he's the captain. All you have to do is *not* get in the way, don't flippantly disrespect or disregard him in front of the crew, and deal with it.

My character is in a similar situation, being a joint owner of the ship as well as being Captain. I'm the most qualified, so I run the ship. My senior staff (the other PCs) has a much wider berth than the average crewmate, and they're free to disagree with anything I say; so long as they do it in private.

Keeping up illusions of control is the best way to keep the crew from mutiny-ing. Keep your disagreements private and everything will work out great.

Sounds like you're just trying to pick a fight, though.

edit:

No, I don't think I will, but thanks.

His point was, those terms are synonyms. It's like saying "he's the driver, but he's not controlling where the car goes". It doesn't matter if the other passengers of the car are telling him which direction to go, the final decision still falls to him. Most likely, he'll listen to the other passengers; but if he sees an opening that'll expedite their travel (backroads vs. interstate, etc.), he's going to take it whether the other passengers of the car like it or not.

-TRRW

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Keeping up illusions of control is the best way to keep the crew from mutiny-ing. Keep your disagreements private and everything will work out great.

Sounds like you're just trying to pick a fight, though.

-TRRW

No offense, but since you don't know what actions the captain has taken to cause the annoyance, I'm gonna have to say that it "sounds like" you are making unsupported and insulting statements.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

Well, without proper evidence, I have to hazard a guess that the Captain is trying to order the other PCs around. If further evidence were brought forth, then a better conclusion could be drawn.

Just following the train of thought; though that's hard when only a destination has been given, with no regard to what we've passed or what's coming up on the road.

If you don't want people jumping to conclusions, then please give us more information so that we can make an informed conclusion.

-TRRW

 

[Agamon]

This would be a lot duller place if D&D didn't have alignment.

 

[Celebrim]

It's like saying "he's the driver, but he's not controlling where the car goes".

Or, "He's not really a doctor; he's more like a degree holding licensed practicing medical physician."

Or, "He's not really a professor; he's more like a senior tenured academic faculty member at an accredited university"

Or, "He's not really the Commander in Chief; he's more like the President of the United States."

Or, "He's not really clergy; he's a Catholic priest."

Or, "He's not really a Captain; he's just the Master of a commecial sailing vessel."

Or, "He's not really a Peer of the Kingdom; he's been made a Duke."

Ect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, Ellie is entirely aware of what authority she has and hasn't delegated. The problem is when more authority is taken than was actually delegated.

But the party gave him the position, support structure, and credibility to take that authority.

If the Senate votes someone Emergency Powers that give him temporary authority over the Senate, and he uses those powers to grant himself permanent authority over the Senate, his permanent authority is real. Even though it was never the Senate's intention to allow that, they gave him the means to do it.

If you've all told the crew "This is the Captain", and he's acted the Captain for some weeks or months, and then you try to tell them "This isn't really the Captain", you're the ones who lose credibility, because you're the ones contradicting yourselves. (His story hasn't changed - he's still saying the same thing you all said at the start!)

-Hyp.

 

[S'mon]

Sounds like you're just trying to pick a fight, though.

That's what it sounds like. I don't know if you have issues with the player OOC, but IC your Chaotic PC sounds like the disruptive element, the bad guy in this scenario. From what you say, the Lawful PC has only done what he's been delegated to do. OK, your PC is really a passenger, not crew. What she is not, is co-Captain. Many Chaotic PCs (and players) just can't stand not being in charge, and that sounds like the case here.

Sorry if that seems an unduly harsh assessment.