Lawful Good Tyranny - How would this look?

[I'm A Banana]

A lot of the suggestions here are how to take something nasty and dress it up as Lawful and/or Good, but in an objective morality system like D&D has, those things are not, in fact, Good.

In D&D's rather light morality, it's sometimes hard to tell (just as it is in the real world, even when you believe fervently in a moral system). Oppression and subjugation probably aren't inherently evil. Free choice and independence probably aren't inherently good (indeed, this is a lot of the Law/Chaos axis). Oppression of a minority of wicked (or even just "not good") people in the name of greater goodness probably isn't evil. It's OK to kill all the goblins if all the goblins are doing bad things.

I like playing with the fuzzy lines between the alignments in many of my games.

 

[Ferret]

Some people seem to be blurring the meaning of Tyranny.

1. A government in which a single ruler (a tyrant) has absolute power.
2. The office or jurisdiction of an absolute ruler.
3. Absolute power, or its use.
4. Extreme severity or rigour.

So, the ruler is LG. He imposes his rule on all those below him who do not understand his grand scheme (1). The State has absolute power over it's citizens, and can exercise this at will(3, 4).

I'm imaging random spot checks on houses in streets on a daily basis.

"Hello sir, I've come to check your house"
....
"We found articles A to J in violation of state law. Please take this notice with advice on how to improve your obedience to the State Laws. You are also obligated to attend a correctional sermon. Your attendance WILL be monitored. Have a good day."

Effectively you have no freedom, but you don't need it, the state will protect you. You have little freedom as to your career, partner, children's education etc. Violence is never used. If you are asked to strip off in public, for a full body check for evil items, you do so. You know the consequences of not obeying.

 

[Nifft]

Some people seem to be blurring the meaning of Tyranny.

I find your definition insufficient, and substitute a more comprehensive one:

* Main Entry: tyr·an·ny
* Pronunciation: ˈtir-ə-nē
* Function: noun
* Inflected Form(s): plural tyr·an·nies
* Etymology: Middle English tyrannie, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin tyrannia, from Latin tyrannus tyrant
* Date: 14th century

1 : oppressive power <every form of tyranny over the mind of man — Thomas Jefferson>; especially : oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state>
2 a : a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state b : the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant
3 : a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force <living under the tyranny of the clock — Dixon Wecter>
4 : a tyrannical act <workers who had suffered tyrannies>

(emphasis added)

If it isn't oppressive, it's not the kind of tyranny I'm talking about.

Cheers, -- N

 

[t3nk3n]

Lawful Good Tyranny = George Orwell's 1984, only with swords.

 

[kenmarable]

If it isn't oppressive, it's not the kind of tyranny I'm talking about.

Cheers, -- N

Wait, I thought we were helping with Orius's campaign?

 

[Pseudopsyche]

A lawful good tyranny would resemble a D&D table where the power gamer tells all the other players how to play their characters. "Okay, you must play a striker, since that's what the Group needs. In fact, we need you to play an avenger of Tempus wielding an executioner's axe. Remember that you don't get a feat until fourth level, since you need RRoT and Weapon Expertise.... Come on, don't be selfish. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." A benign dictator transforms a society into a well-oiled machine, which values collective prosperity over individual freedoms.

 

[Andor]

I'm thinking the theocracy tries to break prisoners by forcing them to listen to sermons on virtue, among other methods. They will use corproral forms of punishment, but nothing that's outright inhumane, so they'll flog prisoners, but not torture them or go out of their way to main them, and they don't execute without a trial, and only for the most serious offenders (murderers, blasphemers, traitors, and the like but not anyone who they belive can be redeemed). It's the methods that's got me hung up here, they do use coersion and corporal punishment, but I'm having trouble coming up with coersive methods that don't slide down into evil.

I have a hangup with your distinction between flogging and torture, given that flogging can cause permenent maiming or death and several forms of torture don't even involve physical coercion...

That aside I think your mistake is in looking to use the word coercion in the first place. A LG state isn't going to try to coerce anyone. The first thing they do is try to raise everyone correctly so expect to see very uniform state schooling including things like daily sermons and loyalty oaths. If that fails they don't try to coerce good behavior they simply try to correct the problem. As a LG society is more focused on the good of the society than the individual. Options include exile, mandatory enlistment in the army (Which used to be pretty popular in this country before the end of the draft) or psionically or magically rewriteing the personality of the criminal. Abhorrent as that would seem to us a theocracy might see the soul as the important bit and the individual mind... less so.

Or they might combine them. Perhaps they have a psionic crystal that contains the mental template of a perfect soldier. Criminals are imprinted with his personality and shipped off to the front lines. Problem solved, and society benefits. And all perfectly good. For certain values of good.

 

[Ferret]

Just forgot to mention this. Lord Vetinaries Ankh-morpork? I'm not sure if it is run in a NG, LG or CG way though...

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Just forgot to mention this. Lord Vetinaries Ankh-morpork? I'm not sure if it is run in a NG, LG or CG way though...

LN. Vetinari isn't good, he's not really evil. He puts the highest emphasis on order. The gears of the city keep moving. If some people get crushed in the gears, well, as long as they don't clog it.

I think that's the issue with this thread - it describes what is far more similar to a Lawful Neutral society then a Good one, where the emphasis is very much on lawful.

Guys, I know a lot of you hate them, but there's alignments between good and evil ;p

 

[I'm A Banana]

A LG state isn't going to try to coerce anyone

Why not? What about LG implies a lack of coercion?

I mean, I don't intend to turn this into an Alignment Thread (tm), but I am interested in why you think that way.

In my perspective, a chaotic state of any sort wouldn't be interested in coercion (you have a freedom to think what you want to think), but coercion would be part and parcel of any lawful society, even an LG one.

Imagine a D&D version of a room full of ad execs, all seeking the Big Idea for the State, selling it to the people like energy drinks and cars: "Believe in the Leader! Then you'll be sexy and popular!"