Leadership Feat

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by Allenchan
There's another feat already that is like it; Might Makes Right (str to leadership)

It seems fine to me

Leading by Strength seems fine because there are a lot of cases where people follow the strongest arm. I think of someone could find some reasonable cases where Intelligence allowed people to lead, then I would allow it, but most of the great leaders are highly Charismatic. Many of them are Intelligent, but they aren't followed because they're Intelligent. How about a feat that adds the Int mod as well as the Cha mod? Cause who would follow a stupid leader who did stupid things that made everyone regret his being a leader, even if he's Charismatic?

Just a thought.

 

[James Heard]

I don't see the harm in it really. If a player wanted to use even their CON scores for the price of a feat I'd have to agree that it's not particularly damaging to game balance. A little hokey? Maybe - but I think D&D can do hokey without breaking. I think for this feat though, I might also make the pre-req that they have INT 15+. Just to keep everyone honest and limit its use in my own campaigns to the rare wizard who wants to plow through feats for something other than spellcasting.

 

[Eltern]

How about a feat that adds the Int mod as well as the Cha mod? Cause who would follow a stupid leader who did stupid things that made everyone regret his being a leader, even if he's Charismatic?

Just a thought.

This is obviously more powerful. So I guess the main concern with people is the flavor, not the power? In effect it's dumping a feat for something like a +4 to +6 in leadership score, which will most likely just affect the number of followers.

 

[Nifft]

No way. There's a reason high-Int wizards tend to make friends (golems, zombies, etc.) more often than they actually make friends. It's a good stereotype, and the mechanics represent it well.

-- N

 

[Goolpsy]

Well, lets just look at things first. Would people follow str? dex? con? int? wis? Cha?

Str: Yes certainly, might is power, and power can surely be used to FORCE people into doing things.
Dex: Not really, first i think of robinhood, but.. he got alot of cha which is the thing that makes people follow him. its not the bow skills nor him being very dexterious.
Con: No, life and things you can withstand could scare people alittle, but if you can't prove yourself by doing something you wont get the nessesary attention.
Int: Not really, Sure people could follow cleaver people.
Wis: Yes, Wisdom might even be the strongest way of ruling. Look at tribes and such, the elders are the rulers, just because they got the highest Wisdom, they know the world, they can give advises...
Cha: Dont think i need to write anything here.

So mainly, if you want a feat changing leadership to another ability, try Wisdom instead of intelligence.

Furthermore, charisma isn't a 'weak' score, its very useful if used correctly. A high Cha paladin is every DM's worst nightmare. All his bonuses are charisma dependent. Another Cha thing that really kicks ass is the diplomacy skill, also dependent on cha.
Manipulation just own...

 

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by Dog_Moon2003 [Yay, quoting myself]
How about a feat that adds the Int mod as well as the Cha mod?

I meant like 1/2 Int mod, to show that it can affect Leadership, but it isn't as important as Charisma. Think *that adds HALF the Int mod...*

Originally posted by Nifft
No way. There's a reason high-Int wizards tend to make friends (golems, zombies, etc.) more often than they actually make friends. It's a good stereotype, and the mechanics represent it well.

I always assumed this was because Wizards are more reclusive than others, alone in their labs creating various magical things [items, creatures, etc]. They create what you call 'friends' more for protection of themselves and their belongings than for friends. How great can a construct be a friend if he can do nothing but follow the simplest of commands, doesn't speak, and doesn't listen to what you say? Besides, there are a couple of Intelligent constructs and there are plenty of Intelligent Undead.

 

[JimAde]

Balance-wise I think it's fine. It's comparable to Weapon Finesse, really. If someone did it in my game, I'd make sure that his cohorts and followers were the kind of people that would follow such a leader. That is, people who would respect intelligence when they saw it. Basically you would be an alpha-geek (which is not necessarily a bad thing...). So no Bard cohorts to do all your talking for you.

 

[James Heard]

You'd get MaryAnn from Gilligan's Island.

 

[Sigurd]

You might make a prerequisite that includes a recent particularly clever action on the characters part.

In game terms I can see this as an avenue of promotion inside of violent organizations. The bandit king keeps a mage who succeeds at something particularly brilliant. The mage elects to remind people of his intelligence when he looks for prestige among the bandits. This feat would accomplish that.

 

[James Heard]

Exactly, it's mechanically sound so basically the important thing if you want to include it is to make sure it makes some sort of the vaguest sense. I think you could even make a case for "Survivor" leadership and having CON and Endurance be prerequisites.

Come to think of it, as long as another feat were in the chain I don't think you'd need to have Leadership for the prereq for "Just So Darn Smart" either. Maybe Any Two Skill Focus feats, or Combat Expertise and a BAB +6? Depending on who you're orienting it for, Wizards & Rogues or just smart Fighters?