Leadership Feat

[Jdvn1]

... I think the feat is underpowered, actually. It doesn't replace Leadership, it requires it. You have to take two feats to take advantage of it.

That hurts.

 

[JimAde]

Yes, but that's the way it should be if you want to "break the rules" to this degree. As some others pointed out, this does make Charisma even more dump-worthy. I think a feat is a reasonable price to pay for making your best stat do something new.

And what you get for it (a cohort who will be several levels higher than he would otherwise be) is pretty valuable.

 

[James Heard]

But are you breaking the rules really? You're just trading statistics used in the mechanic, and just because some people have noted that Charisma is a dump stat doesn't make it so- I've never particularly noticed it myself, for instance. There are too many important stats that are Charisma-based, like spellcasting and Paladin abilities.

 

[JimAde]

The point is, you're changing the way the Leadership feat works (that's what I mean by "breaking the rules"). Presumably someone would do this because their Int is much higher than their Cha. Unless you say that Leadership can be based on any stat you want (which I think you have suggested) it's clearly an advantage to wizards and other characters that need a high int for other reasons. One of the "perks" of Cha-dependent classes like sorcerer is that they get good Leadership values "for free" because their charisma is already high. It's worth a feat in my opinion.

 

[James Heard]

I'm sure it's worth a feat, but what I'm saying is that I'm not sure it needs Leadership as the first tier in the chain. Any prereq that could reasonable impair a character by narrowing the field of choices would do.

Intellectual Leader [General]
Prerequisites: Cha 11+, Int 13+, Any Two Skill Focus feats, Character Level 6+
You gain followers and cohorts as if you had the Leadership feat, except that your Charisma-based Leadership statistics are computed using your Intelligence bonus instead.
Normal: The Leadership feat is based largely upon Charisma.

Survivor Guru [General]
Prerequisites: Cha 11+, Con 13+, Endurance, Survival 8 ranks, Character Level 6+
You gain followers and cohorts as if you had the Leadership feat, except that your Charisma-based Leadership statistics are computed using your Consititution bonus instead.
Normal: The Leadership feat is based largely upon Charisma.

And so on...

 

[JimAde]

I'm sure it's worth a feat, but what I'm saying is that I'm not sure it needs Leadership as the first tier in the chain. Any prereq that could reasonable impair a character by narrowing the field of choices would do.

I thought you were saying to simply change Leadership so it can work off any stat. Also, the Cha 11+ requirement in your examples makes those feats a lot more palatable to me. That prevents the guy with the 6 charisma being a great leader. I'd still make this an adjunct to Leadership, but I can see your approach as a perfectly reasonable alternative.

 

[MoonZar]

"Just So Darn Smart"
Prereqs: Leadership
Your leadership score is based off of Intelligence instead of Charisma.

What do you think?

Eltern

Even the most intelligent being won't be a good leader if he don't have charisma and magnetism. His man won't understand him anyway most of the time if he's too much smart.

 

[Jdvn1]

Yes, but that's the way it should be if you want to "break the rules" to this degree. As some others pointed out, this does make Charisma even more dump-worthy. I think a feat is a reasonable price to pay for making your best stat do something new.

And what you get for it (a cohort who will be several levels higher than he would otherwise be) is pretty valuable.

But two feats to make your best stat do something new? Ouch. Pricey. This definitely isn't overpowered.

 

[Jdvn1]

Even the most intelligent being won't be a good leader if he don't have charisma and magnetism. His man won't understand him anyway most of the time if he's too much smart.

That's a good point. Maybe there should be a minimum Cha requirement? You're not going to have anyone follow you if you have a crazy low Cha.

 

[Quip]

Rather than swapping charisma for intelligence, or adding a fraction of int bonus, why not just have the feat give a static bonus to your leadership score, and give it a 15+ int requirement or so? Seems much simpler.