Leadership vs de-facto ruler

[marune]

In my campaign, I have a monk character that belongs to a small (less than 100 members) order. He has a low charisma (10) and don't have Leadership as a feat.

One time in a year, a member of the order can claim the "leadership" by challenging the current master. The PC did it and won, he's now has 100 lawful members at his services.

He then ask me, why I would need a feat like Leadership ? What it would change in this case ?

How you deal with these situations? Thanks

 

[Drowbane]

Leadership is a simple mechanical way to cover a PC or NPC having lackeys. Some DMs prefer to ignore the feat, and just deal with these matters by DM Fiat.

Neither version is wrong or right, they're just different. Whatever works for your campaign and all that...

 

[marune]

Leadership is a simple mechanical way to cover a PC or NPC having lackeys. Some DMs prefer to ignore the feat, and just deal with these matters by DM Fiat.

Neither version is wrong or right, they're just different. Whatever works for your campaign and all that...

I should add that another PC of the party (rogue) has taken Leadership to get a gang of low-level rogues / experts to help him build is criminal business.

Of course, the level of devotion of the NPCs are different, the CHA rogue will not be batrayed by his cohort/follower and that alone is worth a feat.

But because it is a obviously lawful order, the Monk doesn't have many disavantages (except the annual challenge).

 

[Li Shenron]

He then ask me, why I would need a feat like Leadership ? What it would change in this case ?

How you deal with these situations?

For me the Leadership feat gives the character one specific benefit: the undisputed loyalty of the cohort.
No matter how you treat the cohort, he/she will not leave you or betray you.
That is what you pay for when you take this feat instead of something else.

Some gamer told me that this can lead to bad roleplaying, when the PC abuses the cohort, and the cohort would be utterly stupid not to question the leadership at least, or rebel at most. But fantasy books and movies are FULL of cohorts which are terribly abused by their (usually evil) masters, and never leave them. Eventually the only chance of roleplaying badly is with your alignment, not with the feat.

So you don't need the feat to become a leader, and have followers or squires or apprentices etc. But without the feat you need to work (i.e. roleplay) a lot to get them and to keep them, and you'll never be 100% sure of their loyalty.

 

[MarkB]

The other thing the Leadership gives you is an extra party member who won't dilute the party XP. As it stands, if the monk asks one of his Order to accompany the party, that character will earn XP for each encounter in which he participates, which dilutes the amount available to the other party members. E.g. if there are four PCs in the party, and you add an NPC who participates in encounters, then the total XP for each encounter is now divided by five instead of by four.

Cohorts earn XP by a different mechanism, one which does not impact on the XP earned by the party.

 

[green slime]

There isn't going to be an NPC that comes along and challenges the PC with Leadership for right to rule over his cohort, ever. That monk, on the other hand....

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

In my campaign, I have a monk character that belongs to a small (less than 100 members) order. He has a low charisma (10) and don't have Leadership as a feat.

One time in a year, a member of the order can claim the "leadership" by challenging the current master. The PC did it and won, he's now has 100 lawful members at his services.

He then ask me, why I would need a feat like Leadership ? What it would change in this case ?

How you deal with these situations? Thanks

The loyality of his members are not to him, but to his post or rank.
As you said, they are lawful, but that also means that he has to act lawful (according to the laws or philosphy of the order).
It is also possible for lawful people to work behind your back (think of lawful evil associates especially, but also lawful good people trying to make the best of it). They will not openly challenge the Monk, but they might still have their own agenda.

Though this is only a problem if the monk somehow abuses the order for non-orderly tasks.

Rulewise, he doesn't get followers or cohorts this way. Benefits of Leadership usually include that you don't have to take special care of your followers and cohorts. They don't need money or equipment (or take care of it themself).
Any order member following the character will recievehis share of XP(if he is contributing in encounters and so on) and possibly demand a share of the treasure, though that depends more on the specifics of the order (it is likely that a share of treasure can be denied).
If the order members don't gain XP during encounters, they will most likely get no at all (means they will fall back over time).

Leadership not only guarantees a loyal cohort, it also guarantees that he will advance with the party.

There might be also some baggage associated with becoming the leader of an existing order (instead of effectively founding one with Leadership) - existing contracts or rituals that the order has to fulfill, obligations to pay and so on.

Interesting oppertunity:
You could invent a "Monk Monastery Leader" Prestige Class, that grants Leadership-like benefits and still gives some of the Monk advancements, if the player wants to explore his new role more (and doesn't want to wait for his next feat, or simply cannot afford to lose a feat...)

 

[irdeggman]

Game mechanic wise?


Tell the player that as the leader of the order he can order them to do things, but they won't accompany him. That requires the feat. Basically the feat gets the followers/cohorts to accompany the character.

It is a matter of loyalty and devotion. Untill the PC has taken the leadership feat he has not "proven" himself sufficiently to get the dedication necessary to have followers/cohort.

Treat the feat as a the benefit from demonstrating true leadership and establishing a bond with those around him.

Soldiers will go to war for their king, but some will go to extremes and have absolute loyalty. The latter are a demonstration of something "earned".

 

[Mr Jack]

As I see it, Leadership buys personal devotion and choice over your followers.

So he's got a 100 monks? Most of them are 1st level and unlikely to put their life on the line for him; and some of the order will doubtless be plotting against him. Remember Lawful only means they work within the rules.

 

[marune]

As I see it, Leadership buys personal devotion and choice over your followers.

So he's got a 100 monks? Most of them are 1st level and unlikely to put their life on the line for him; and some of the order will doubtless be plotting against him. Remember Lawful only means they work within the rules.

Specially lawful-evil ones

Thanks for you answers.