Leadership

[Eltern]

Leadership has never really been used before in my campaigns, and as such I've never really paid attention to it. However, today one of my players, a cleric, wants to take the leadership feat, so I looked at it. Am I correct in that you get -one- cohort that, unless your charisma is abysmal, will always be 1-2 levels lower than you, and no less? Followers seems like a fun idea, but you need to either be really freaking pretty or high level to get enough of them to do anything (Like run your own temple/chapel, which is what she is interested in). What are some crazy things you can do with leadership? Is there an Improved Leadership feat?

Oh, another, wizard character is looking at this as well now for the purpose of having people to run a magic shop. How much mulah could he produce from running a small time scroll/potion shop in a city of 30,000?

Eltern

 

[Enkhidu]

A quick note on the followers given by Leadership:

The way we read it, followers are pretty just hirelings that are a bit more loyal than your average employee. They might have a vested interest in the PCs welfare, but their also not likely to put their lives on the line for them (unless, of course, their men at arms and its their job!).

We were able to fit followers into a keep/village by simply saying that a certain number of them were moyal to the PC in question, while others were loyal to some of the other portions of the PC's leaddership score (for example, the PC is the leader of a well known and liked band of adventurers, and that added to the score, so some of the followers are loyal to the adventurer's "leader" rather than the PC, and certain followers are loyal more to the keep that the PC uses as a permanent base of operations than the PC).

So, while certain key positions at the keep and in the village are staffed with followers, the rest are filled by simple hirelings. Something similar might work with a chapel!

 

[Crothian]

Cohorts have to be at least 2 levels lower then you, no matter what the chart says. That's in the fine print under the feat. And you don't have to be pretty to get lots of followers, one has to be Charismatic. Big difference.

IMC, the character who has Leadership has his cohort a ship's captain so they can travel well. Other times we have seen the followers promote a god, church, ideal, or just help a community.

There is no improved Leadership feat, but there are feats in 3rd party books that can increase one's leadership score.

 

[jgsugden]

Leadership has never really been used before in my campaigns, and as such I've never really paid attention to it. However, today one of my players, a cleric, wants to take the leadership feat, so I looked at it. Am I correct in that you get -one- cohort that, unless your charisma is abysmal, will always be 1-2 levels lower than you, and no less? Followers seems like a fun idea, but you need to either be really freaking pretty or high level to get enough of them to do anything (Like run your own temple/chapel, which is what she is interested in). What are some crazy things you can do with leadership? Is there an Improved Leadership feat?

There are many threads on various boards about leadership. They have a lot of useful info. I'd search them out.

Leadership is the feat witht he most potential for abuse int he game. It gives the PC an army at his beck and call, as well as nearly doubling his abilities via his cohort.

Some important guidelines I keep in mind:

1.) The cohort should never be close in power to a PC. They should use the elite ability scores from the MM (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) or worse. They should have little or no starting equipment (as a typical NPC). They should never be strong enough to steal the glory from another PC. They are there to be a supporting character, not a main character, in the D&D story.

2.) They should have lives, families, etc ... They are, by rule, loyal to their PC, but they should also have lives outside of the PC. In other words, many cohorts should not be at the beck and call of their PC every moment of every day. When the PC goes on a long adventure, the cohort may wish to stay behind to be with his family.

3.) Cohorts should be designed to be complete individuals, not wands for their PC. They should not be built to serve as a min-maxed servant for their PC. A sorcerer cohort would not choose only spells that buff up a fighter. He'd choose spells for protection (shield), for daily use (unseen servant) and for other tasks as well (as an example: a cohort sorcerer that spent his early years as a messenger might have a number of spells that are useful for travel (mount), storing equipment (leomund's secret chest) and providing refuge (rope trick)).

4.) Having a servant involved burders as well as benefits. A loyal cohort can still get in trouble. If a cleric has a paladin cohort, that paladin might not be very approving of the seedy areas of town where the PCs collect information. A wrong word from a cohort could start a bar brawl. A loyal rogue might be great in the dungeon, but what happens when he seems that rich nobleman with the loose coin purse? A loyal bard cohort could request that the group stay a few extra days in town so the can perform at the upcoming festival. A loyal wizard could be jailed for using his magic to spy on the beautiful princess in the bath ...

The rules allow PCs to control cohorts at the DM's option, but I recommend against them controlled by the PC at all times. Instead, I'd advise them to follow all commands of the PC (subject to interpretation), but for the DM to control them when they are away from the PC or are not under orders. The feat is not called 'second character'. It is called 'leadership'. Let the PC be a leader, but don't let him be two entire characters at the same time.

 

[James McMurray]

Am I correct in that you get -one- cohort that, unless your charisma is abysmal, will always be 1-2 levels lower than you, and no less?

Or if you have penalties for personality, history, or other compnions. Once you've had a cohort or two die things will start getting worse for you.

Followers seems like a fun idea, but you need to either be really freaking pretty or high level to get enough of them to do anything (Like run your own temple/chapel, which is what she is interested in). What are some crazy things you can do with leadership? Is there an Improved Leadership feat?

For running a temple, you could start off with a leadership score of 11 at 6th level (level 6 + charisma 2 + generosity 1 + base of operations 2). That gives you 6 acolytes to start running your small temple. As you gain levels (and dump gold into the temple) it will both grow in sie and in staff, until at level 16 (or sooner if you increase charisma) you'll have a fairly bussling temple that has 73 staff members.

The group in our City of the Spider Queen example is a small travelling circus. We've got a goblin dagger-master, several different types of dwarves, and a pixie druid. The bard's followers run the circus while we're out hunting drow.

There is an Epic leadership feat in the ELH. The Draconomicon has a Dragon Cohort feat that dosn't give followers but gives your cohort a free +3 to spend on ECL. The cohort has to come from a specific list of dragons.

Oh, another, wizard character is looking at this as well now for the purpose of having people to run a magic shop. How much mulah could he produce from running a small time scroll/potion shop in a city of 30,000?

What kind of area is the city in? If its on the outskirts of a country there will likely be a larger adventurer base to sell to.

I personally wouldn't let it go too high, and would base it on the rate at which the party advances and their average wealth per level. Leadership is already a powerful feat without turning it into a gold mine as well. Perhaps 1-3% of the character's average wealth at their level per game month, depending on the area? As they gained levels their customer base and reputation would grow, which would give an ingame reason for the game balance choice of basing it on character level.

 

[Eltern]

What kind of area is the city in? If its on the outskirts of a country there will likely be a larger adventurer base to sell to.

Yuppers Ptolus, of Banewarrens, in fact.

The character has a leadership score of 11, and today just got her 4th level bow-wielding cohort, and has pleasant dialogues with...eh...herself. One session and we all love Eddie (PC's name is Al, puns ensue). Got a little chapel going, everything's swell. Thanks!

Eltern

 

[the Jester]

Do not underestimate Leadership. It's such a good feat that most of the high-level pcs imc have it, and all of the Epic-level pcs do.