Leadersihp and Thrallherder

[Sekhmet]

I missed the part of leadership where your followers pay you...I also missed the part of friendly/ helpful where they give you free stuff

The general feel of the Thrallherd class feature intones that your believers are more willing to offer up their goods to you for free/give you money (as religious followers have historically done).

The Thrallherd class does not receive any of the bonuses or negatives featured in the Leadership feat.
My player wanted to have his believers supply his armies for free (At no cost to him, meaning the craftsmen pay out-of-pocket for the materials, work the materials into gear, and give it to his army at no cost) which simply is ridiculous.

It does not make sense that you would have to pay for the typical goods one requires to survive, however. You acquire or grow your own food, build or buy your own house, and take care of other necessities before you serve.

I'll definitely look at the PH2 for Building a Business, though.

 

[Belzbet]

It does not make sense that you would have to pay for the typical goods one requires to survive, however. You acquire or grow your own food, build or buy your own house, and take care of other necessities before you serve.

What I mean is that if your follower are going to LEAVE THEIR BUILT HOUSE, come WORK FOR YOU (meaning they WILL NOT HAVE TIME TO GROW THEIR OWN FOOD) then yeah you must pay for their food and shelter. OF COURSE if they really dont work for you (if they actually have a job farming and they just say they are their to work for you, imagine that half of your followers said they were busy right now because they were working for their employer, which isnt YOU). OF COURSE if they live at there own house then you musnt pay for their house, but if you want them to come live at YOUR estate you must first have an estate (to have followers grow food you must acquire the goods). So you arent really paying them you are paying for the goods it takes tomaintain that many loyal followers (i eman followers cant follow AND grow their own food, take care of themselves, of course unless you let them be and didnt have them working FOR YOU). what i say is that if you really want an army or a work force you MUST PAY FOR THE GOODS. It only makes sense this way. If you want your followers at your estate making you money you must give them food. How is a follower going to fend for himself and work for you (even one that is psionically compelled)? Of course you dont necessarily need to have them working for you (you could let them be). I am talking about a situation where your followers are YOUR workforce. Imagine you yourself fending for yourself (growing enough food to ACTUALLY LIVE OFF OF, and making YOUR OWN CLOTHES AND WEAPONS, and working for the job you have... I mean of coure the followers will have some clothes, etc... but the grain and the armor and weapons they will not have (not very many commoners have a full set of combat gear.

 

[anest1s]

The Thrallherd class does not receive any of the bonuses or negatives featured in the Leadership feat.
My player wanted to have his believers supply his armies for free (At no cost to him, meaning the craftsmen pay out-of-pocket for the materials, work the materials into gear, and give it to his army at no cost) which simply is ridiculous.

I think there is a problem with infinite money.
One way to handle this would be to have every paladin within reach to go after the thrallherder. After all he is killing ppl.
An other would be to have new followers join naked.

 

[Jacob]

I missed the part of leadership where your followers pay you...I also missed the part of friendly/ helpful where they give you free stuff

Again I turn to the DMG and point to p.105 where in it says followers are similar to Cohorts, but don't demand a share of treasure. However, they depend on the PC they follow to equip them and keep them fed. I've sadly glossed over this ruling, though I've done as such as a means to quickly get to the game and not micromanage too much. Mind you, we are talking mundane tasks like eating bread and having a knife, not the important details with plot. Who cares how many knives are among the 100+ followers you have? At that level they aren't even going to be around the challenges you face, so don't sweat it. As always, it's best to keep it as simple as possible.

The Thrallherd class does not receive any of the bonuses or negatives featured in the Leadership feat.

Yes it does. There is nothing in the writing of the class that says otherwise. you still determine your "Leadership" score as normal via the modifiers presented in normal Leadership, just with a different table and feel of how the "Leadership" works. Other than that, it's exactly the same.

I think there is a problem with infinite money.
One way to handle this would be to have every paladin within reach to go after the thrallherder. After all he is killing ppl.
An other would be to have new followers join naked.

I approve of this plan. It's not only an appropriate action on the part of NPCs, but gives the plot over to the PC as it should. Hopefully it's not a nation of Paladins which has kept the peace in the land for 1000's of years. Those just suck.

 

[frankthedm]

Yes it does. There is nothing in the writing of the class that says otherwise. you still determine your "Leadership" score as normal via the modifiers presented in normal Leadership, just with a different table and feel of how the "Leadership" works. Other than that, it's exactly the same.

No, you don't. This score is not affected by any of the modifiers mentioned in the Leadership feat.

 

[Sekhmet]

Yes it does. There is nothing in the writing of the class that says otherwise. you still determine your "Leadership" score as normal via the modifiers presented in normal Leadership, just with a different table and feel of how the "Leadership" works. Other than that, it's exactly the same.

As with the Leadership feat, a thrallherd has a Leadership score that determines the highest-level thrall and believers she can attract. A thrallherd’s Leadership score is equal to her character level + her Cha modifier + her thrallherd level. (Note that her thrallherd level is counted twice.) This score is not affected by any of the modifiers mentioned in the Leadership feat.

End quote.

 

[Jacob]

No, you don't. This score is not affected by any of the modifiers mentioned in the Leadership feat.

CURSES!!! I'm usually very good about reading things like that. My apologies. All the same, I still feel what I've said before that point stands: the thralls and believers act just as cohorts and followers except in how they come around to the Thrallherd (and other notations). If you give exception to the Thrallherd's abilities, you may as well do the same for those with Leadership. It's a matter of balance and consistency, you know?

 

[Sekhmet]

Yes, it is a matter of keeping it balanced. However, Thrallherd is a 10 level Prestige Class and Leadership is one feat with no prerequisites.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, it is a matter of keeping it balanced. However, Thrallherd is a 10 level Prestige Class and Leadership is one feat with no prerequisites.

Actually, you have to be at least 6th to get the Leadership feat, which is the same level you can jump into Thrallherd. In that sense, the only difference between the two is one can be gotten at that level without other prerequisites, while Thrallherd requires you to have a specific class and/or Manifester Lvl (knowledge of psionics is small), known power, skills and Inquisitor feat.

Thankfully you get more bang for your buck with those loopholes, because you not only get a more powerful "cohort", but another "cohort" of appropriate entry level of a regular cohort, while those with Leadership will always have the single possible cohort (which is modified if they suck as a leader). Your "cohorts" and "followers" are also replaced within a 24 hour period if you lose any of them, regardless of how you treated the previous ones. Considering this, that's power enough.

 

[Sekhmet]

The big difference is that the Thrallherd adds his Thrallherd level to his Leadership score twice, and it is otherwise impossible for a person with Leadership to acquire a +10 to his score from those table bonses.

The second cohort is also impressively useful, though I've never understood the reason for acquiring one through a feat, when you can just purchase the services of a Hireling for about the same amount, who is just as loyal, with no limit to the number.

So, Leadership is one feat, while Thrallherd is a feat, a specific power - which you need to be a Telepath for, or spend an additional feat -, and a handful of skill points.

I think the most major difference is that the Thrallherd doesn't have to worry about accumulating negative points to his score from adventuring, being of a different alignment, having a special cohort, or doing horrible things to his followers.