Leap Attack + Valorous

[Rythannian]

I have come to EN World once again as it seems to contain the most knowledge of games assembled in one place.

Another players interpretation, along with his thread at wizards, of the rules for Leap Attack and Valorous:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=765515
BTW, Navarras damage is as follows: PA (-10) 2d6 +34
PA+Leap Att 2d6 +44 (x2 for Valorious)

Thus, for Leaping attack gives me possibility of 92-112. Then if I critical on
a 17-20, it could be 184-224.

However impressive, this leaves me exposed with an AC of 17. My character
definitely has her drawbacks, but if I wanted to metagame, I could have added
Combat Brute, etc. as stated in the link.

Now first I calculate a STR or 28-30 is needed for an imposible modifier of +9.33333.


After reading that email I calculated some thing myself based on a character taking -10 for their power attack using a two-handed great sword with a STR score of 22.

Leap Attack only:
PA @ -10 = +30
STR 22 = +9
Great Sword = 2d6

Leap Attack with critical or Leap Attack with Valorous:
PA @ -10 = +60
STR 22 = +18
Great Sword = 4d6

IF the Valorous magic weapon enhancment from the UnAp East FR book applies the damage above would be correct for this as well.

Now, If you critical with both leap attack and Valorous it gets a little tricky but where we go:
Leap Attack + Valoruos with critical:
PA @ -10 = +90
STR 22 = +27
Great Sword = 6d6

Does this all look correct?

Now my second and most important question is should Leap Attack and Valoruos even stack in the first place?

Here was my response to him: ...you may want to inquire if Valorous can stack with Leap Attack. In my opinion they don't. Valorous works with a charge attack. Leap attack is a combination of jump with a change attack and not a straight charge. It is it's own attack defined as a leap attack and Valorous does not say it doubles damage on a leap attack only a charge.

 

[Iku Rex]

The OP is very confusing. First of all, the WotC thread you linked to is filled with misinformation. Here's an ENWorld thread with a couple of CustServ answers you may want to look at: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178197 . Specifically http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3136999&postcount=32 and http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3138082&postcount=33 .

Aside from the 3x/4x thing your math seems to be correct though.

And yes, Leap Attack "stacks" with the valorous ability. A valorous weapon deals double damage "when used in a charge". You "must follow all the normal rules for ... making a charge, except that you ignore rough terrain in any squares you jump over" when using Leap Attack. The Leap Attack feat summary reads "doubles the damage by Power Attack on a successful charge".

 

[Rythannian]

Thanks for the links. I knew that most of the posters on the WotC thread where not correct. These links help a ton. Thanks again.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I have come to EN World once again as it seems to contain the most knowledge of games assembled in one place.

Another players interpretation, along with his thread at wizards, of the rules for Leap Attack and Valorous:


Now first I calculate a STR or 28-30 is needed for an imposible modifier of +9.33333.


After reading that email I calculated some thing myself based on a character taking -10 for their power attack using a two-handed great sword with a STR score of 22.

Leap Attack only:
PA @ -10 = +30
STR 22 = +9
Great Sword = 2d6

Leap Attack with critical or Leap Attack with Valorous:
PA @ -10 = +60
STR 22 = +18
Great Sword = 4d6

IF the Valorous magic weapon enhancment from the UnAp East FR book applies the damage above would be correct for this as well.

Now, If you critical with both leap attack and Valorous it gets a little tricky but where we go:
Leap Attack + Valoruos with critical:
PA @ -10 = +90
STR 22 = +27
Great Sword = 6d6

Does this all look correct?

Now my second and most important question is should Leap Attack and Valoruos even stack in the first place?

Here was my response to him: ...you may want to inquire if Valorous can stack with Leap Attack. In my opinion they don't. Valorous works with a charge attack. Leap attack is a combination of jump with a change attack and not a straight charge. It is it's own attack defined as a leap attack and Valorous does not say it doubles damage on a leap attack only a charge.

This is how I read it.

Note: I can not comment on Valorous as I don't know what it does or have the specific wording. So I will just use an example of a crit.

Using a one-handed weapon (Longsword) with just Power Attack:
PA @ -10 = +10
STR 22 = +6
Longsword = 1d8

Using a one-handed weapon (Longsword) with Power Attack & Leap Attack:
PA @ -10 = +20
STR 22 = +6
Longsword = 1d8

Using a one-handed weapon (Longsword) with Power Attack & Leap Attack & a Crit:
PA @ -10 = +40
STR 22 = +12
Longsword = 2d8

--------------------------

Using a two-handed weapon (Great Sword) with just Power Attack:
PA @ -10 = +20
STR 22 = +9
Longsword = 2d6

Note: With the new errata, the Leap Attack feat can be interrpreted 2 ways. Applying the "+100% normal bonus damage from Power Attack" line while ignoring the last sentence which directly references how the feat interacts with 2-handed weapons (ie triple the damage). Or you could apply that last sentence when using a 2-handed weapon. I'll list both interpretations based.

Using a two-handed weapon (Great Sword) with Power Attack & Leap Attack:
PA @ -10 = +40 (if you use the +100% rule) or +60 (if you use the triple damage rule)
STR 22 = +9
Longsword = 2d6

Using a two-handed weapon (Great Sword) with Power Attack & Leap Attack & a Crit:
PA @ -10 = +80 (if you use the +100% rule) or +120 (if you use the triple damage rule)
STR 22 = +18
Longsword = 4d6

And for referrence, this is how the benefit of Leap Attack is worded when you add in the errata.

You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from power attack.

My personal take on the "adding multiple multipliers rule" and why it apply to Leap Attack.
I also wanted to note that, the only time the "adding multiple multipliers rule" comes into affect is when you are multiplying damage for the entire weapon. This includes the weapon's damage as well as any bonus damage (not bonus damage dice mind you). And to clarify further, "bonus damage" being from Str mod, enhancement bonuses, smite damage, power attack, etc.

Example:

Lance on horseback while charging and has the Spirited Charge feat and crits would be a x4 multipliers (x3 for lance on horseback while charging and spirited charge as specfied in the spirited charge feat x2 for a crit = x4 under D&D multiplication). Note that this x4 damage doesn't just affect one aspect of the damage (like Leap Attack does for Power Attack damage), but for all the damage involved. This is the difference I feel is significant.

Now let's mix it up a little bit...

Example 2:

Lance on horseback while charging and has the Spirited Charge feat using Power Attack and Leap Attack and crits (I don't know if Leap Attack would work if the mount is the one jumping, but work with me here )...

PA @ -10 = +160 (if you use the +100% rule) or +240 (if you use the triple damage rule)
STR 22 = +36
Lance = 4d8