D&D 5E (2014) Legendary actions... should it be 3?

[Valdier]

Based on the concept of Legendary actions, should it most likely be based on the number of PC's in the fight vs just a fixed number such as 3?

For example, a creature with legendary actions against 2 PC's would get 1 legendary in theory... but against 10 PC's would get 3.

Should this scale based on the number of PC's -1? This would let a legendary creature act roughly after each PC which seems to be the intent.

 

[Oofta]

The number of legendary actions should be whatever number you think makes sense to you as a DM based on the story you want to tell.

The rules are a guideline, and the starting point of your encounters, not the end.

So for me, it's going to be more based on "how legendary" the monster is. If a monster has more legendary actions than expected I will probably try to telegraph that ahead of time through rumors or info the PCs have discovered while doing research.

As far as adjusting based on the number of people, I'm not sure I'd go lower than 3 very often. Legendary actions are taken into account in the XP for the monster so you're playing with the balance of the game. On the other hand, the XP is based on 4 characters so I could see why you might want to give them more for bigger groups.

This also depends on your group. I play/DM with a couple of groups and in one of my groups there's a guy who's a real stickler for the rules ... it may not be worth the hassle to up the number of legendary's a monster has just because he would pull us out of the moment with meta-game knowledge if I throw more then 4 (or less than 3). The other group just accepts what I throw as long as it never gets to a DM vs Player feel.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

A Legendary creature doesn't need to take an action after every player turn, that would feel mechanical. You just need enough that it's not totally passive while all the PCs take their turns, both so that it feels like more of a threat and to make it harder for players to exploit the turn order.

To make a legendary monster more of a challenge for a bigger party I'd just make the legendary actions more powerful instead of giving it more.

 

[Valdier]

A Legendary creature doesn't need to take an action after every player turn, that would feel mechanical. You just need enough that it's not totally passive while all the PCs take their turns, both so that it feels like more of a threat and to make it harder for players to exploit the turn order.

To make a legendary monster more of a challenge for a bigger party I'd just make the legendary actions more powerful instead of giving it more.

But that is literally how it works currently in the "default" rules. The party is 4 players as the assumption, and the monster gets its action +1 legendary per player (Default 3), past the 1st. It can take one between every players turn unless it has one that costs multiple actions.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

But that is literally how it works currently in the "default" rules. The party is 4 players as the assumption, and the monster gets its action +1 legendary per player (Default 3), past the 1st. It can take one between every players turn unless it has one that costs multiple actions.

Unless the monster has minons, then it can take it's legendary actions after their turns as well.

Do you have an argument or just a burning desire to spell out facts?

 

[Shiroiken]

I think 3 is a fine number. I have a 7 person party, and it's not been an issue for me. Of course, I seldom (if ever) have just a single monster anyway. I like pairs or bbeg with minions.

 

[Valdier]

Unless the monster has minons, then it can take it's legendary actions after their turns as well.

Do you have an argument or just a burning desire to spell out facts?

I don't have an argument because I don't come on here to be a pedantic twit. If you are looking to argue, you will have to find someone more regular for that, I'm looking for a discussion. I do appreciate that you have added a new element to the discussion though, one that is actually relevant. The point of minions, which does change the encounter composition (and vastly increases difficulty beyond XP values).

When minions are introduced they actually notably change the power level of every other creature in the fight because of action economy. The very thing legendary actions are attempting to make up for. So, rather than give the BBG more legendary actions, give them minions to effectively fake, legendary actions... Same thing different paint brush I suppose (although minions are far, far more powerful in the case where LE's are in the game).

 

[Mouseferatu]

It depends on how close you feel like hewing to the mechanical guidelines. Giving a legendary creature more legendary actions probably--unless none of them are attacks--is also going to bump up its CR. Which bumps up XP, and indicates a tougher fight, etc. etc.

If you know your party well enough to account for that, or else just don't care, then of course don't worry about it. I just wanted to bring it up for those who do want to consider such things.

 

[nswanson27]

Personally I think it should be 0. I know it's part of the rules and has a history, but it's not realistic. "Why did he just make that save? Because he's really "legendary"...?" I feel like there's other better ways to make a boss fight challenging if that's what's needed.

 

[werecorpse]

Personally I think it should be 0. I know it's part of the rules and has a history, but it's not realistic. "Why did he just make that save? Because he's really "legendary"...?" I feel like there's other better ways to make a boss fight challenging if that's what's needed.

You're thinking of legendary resistance, not legendary actions.

edit: I would lean toward beefing up the effect of the actions, maybe making one have an area of effect.

the downsides of more legendary actions as I see it are:
1. It will slow down combat (which will be a factor with a group of 5+ players)
2. It means if you summon an ally or bring along some muscle you just made the encounter tougher
3. If it has minions with seperate initiative each of those generates a chance for a legendary action