D&D 5E Legendary Resistance

[Telsar]

I'm still running low-level, so I haven't had to worry about it yet, but does anyone have options for a different way to do this other than, 3 times a day, monsters just auto save? My problem with it is narrative; are the PCs supposed to know that's how the monster's defense works? Or only know it if someone did enough research or were an 'expert on dragons' or some such? So if they knew it, they could hit the creature with low powered attacks until they use up the resistances. And if they didn't know it, they go "I guess these things always get lucky their first few rounds fighting us".

None of that makes much sense, story-telling wise.

I could change it to the creature always gets advantage on saves, but that diminishes the usefulness of it when the creature has magic resistance too. Or perhaps a recharge time roll? That still make an automatic "first spell never works on them" thing that I don't like. I want to keep the ability; legendary creatures _should_ have legendarily remarkable resistance to odd attacks, I just don't like something that's so.... gamist.

Anyone have ideas for alternatives?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It's not "how it works" in a physics sense. It's more of a narrative convenience to prevent them from falling for the one big shot that you fire at it.

Note, also, that it's not the first three saves posed to it - if you try to feint with a low-power Fireball in the hopes of following up with a full-strength Disintegrate, it can choose to eat the Fireball and save its ability for the ones that count.

If the players could learn anything at all, it would be to not put all of your eggs in one basket, because they never go down from one lucky spell.

 

[Paraxis]

Since it applies once they fail the save, you could use a recharge mechanic and take it out of your hands.

Legendary Resistance: When this creature fails a save it instead makes the save, Recharge 5-6. So just like breath weapons on dragons at the start of it's turn you roll a d6 and on a 5 or 6 it recovers the use of this ability. I might also let them use a legendary action to recover the ability off turn.

I also dislike legendary resistance and am not sure what to do about it, to me it is more of mechanical thing just shutting down the real spells turns the fight into a slug fest where only direct damage matters. It neuters the spellcasters in the epic fights and only the damage dealers matter.

 

[Uchawi]

That includes immunities, like only taking damage from silver weapons. I would skip legendary anything or immunities overall, and take a more natural approach to why a creature does anything, but still give the party a fighting chance. So take the automatic saves and convert to resistance against specific things, or just give them advantage on a save. The all or nothing approach leaves the table asking why an automatic ability exists. You had the same discussion going on forever during the playtest with automatic damage.

 

[Quartz]

How would changing it to 'Always has Advantage on saves vs X; Disadvantage does not apply' affect the game?

 

[Li Shenron]

My problem with it is narrative; are the PCs supposed to know that's how the monster's defense works?

It's really a decision that should be based on preferred playstyle!

Some players are going to own the Monster Manual or check out monsters from Basic. Whether you intend to use monsters as-is, or use your own variations, you must tell them.

It seems clear you don't like this ability because it's a fixed number, and it feels "disassociated" to you. As a DM, you are totally in charge to use an alternative, for example:

1- each legendary creature has its own fixed number of automatic saves (either decided by you, or rolled by you beforehand)

2- legendary creatures simply have a better chance at saves, but instead of using advantage I suggest to use a separate method that doesn't interact with (dis)advantage: for example, a legendary creature might just get to save twice, each time possibly with (dis)advantage depending on external circumstances

3- legendary creatures always have an additional (stacking) advantage on saves: in other words, they roll 3d20-keep-highest when advantaged, they roll 2d20-keep-highest when not (dis)advantaged, and they roll 1d20 when disadvantaged

3a- as a variant of the previous, you may rule that after the first failure, they revert using the same (dis)advantage rules

Also, as a completely separate idea, if your concern is with low-level spells, you can just make a specific legendary creature totally immune to spells below a certain level.

 

[amerigoV]

I'm still running low-level, so I haven't had to worry about it yet, but does anyone have options for a different way to do this other than, 3 times a day, monsters just auto save? My problem with it is narrative; are the PCs supposed to know that's how the monster's defense works?

Sage isn't just a plant, ya know. Sometimes the PCs need to do a bit of research (vs. the player just reading the MM). It also give you as the GM a chance to either tinker with the critter a bit or pass a bit of misinformation.

[heh - wasn't their a 3e module where all the players hear is that they will be facing a "white dragon" when it really is a Wight Dragon?]

 

[Paraxis]

I was thinking about this some more and I figured out how I plan on running it in my game. First let me explain a house rule I have about Inspiration, you can use it to give you advantage like normal before you roll or you can reroll after the fact by spending a point. So if a rogue needs advantage to get sneak attack works normal, if you have advantage already yet fail spending inspiration lets you reroll with advantage again.

So my solution for legendary resistance will be to replace it with 3 inspiration uses for the legendary creature to use as the DM wishes, on attacks, saves, ability checks however.

 

[Nebulous]

I was thinking about this some more and I figured out how I plan on running it in my game. First let me explain a house rule I have about Inspiration, you can use it to give you advantage like normal before you roll or you can reroll after the fact by spending a point. So if a rogue needs advantage to get sneak attack works normal, if you have advantage already yet fail spending inspiration lets you reroll with advantage again.

So my solution for legendary resistance will be to replace it with 3 inspiration uses for the legendary creature to use as the DM wishes, on attacks, saves, ability checks however.

How would you use it for creatures that already have advantage for some reason? This brings up one of my problems with Adv/Dis - they can't outweigh one another. Per RAW anyway.

 

[Paraxis]

How would you use it for creatures that already have advantage for some reason? This brings up one of my problems with Adv/Dis - they can't outweigh one another. Per RAW anyway.

With my house rule on inspiration just letting reroll, the legendary creature makes a check with advantage like a save still fails and decides to use one of his inspirations, he would make the save again with advantage. Sure I understand it is almost like an automatic success but the point is it isn't there is still the chance it fails, the dice are used and I am not telling my wizard he should never try to use a spell like dominate monster on the creature.

With the creature being able to use it for any roll I can see myself as the DM using it to make sure I get a good solid hit in early on, essentially using it up so that a few rounds into the fight the spell casters can throw out those save or suck spells and go crazy when one works.

Right now my big issue with legendary resistance is it turns creative and fun spells into things you just don't cast, the spellcasters become cantrip or direct damage spell slingers and the whole fight is a race to see who can deal the most damage.