D&D 5E Legends & Lore 4/1/2013

[Balesir]

I've been talking about the down sides of 4e's separation of story and mechanics for years at this point. If you're a fan of overwrought jaron, google yourself some ludonarrative dissonance, and have fun.

It can be a positive, and a game without it would suck as much as a game that relied on it, and different tables and different players have different thresholds of tolerance for it, but to assume that it is always an everywhere good for everyone and should be adopted as The Rule where possible is to be bit under-educated about how other people play this game, and how they have fun with it.

If using non-natural meanings was somehow mandatory, maybe, but we're talking about where that is actually a (non-default) option. The only rule is that the powers do what they say they do in system terms. How they do it is up to the players to decide, but the default would be a naturalistic explanation based on the keywords (where given - not everything needs one).

But, if everyone in the game wants a wierd world with laprechauns causing every event, why not?

And if no one is a jerk, then this is not a problem. The DM makes a ruling, and you move on.

No, everything relying on GM ruling is, for me, a problem. If I want the session to be everyone listening - even while kibitzing - while someone tells a story I'll turn on Listen With Mother. For a roleplaying game, as far as I'm concerned, either everyone gets an active say in what's happening or it's a waste of time.

I take it that these are insults?

Not any more - Morrus figured out a way to get the naughty word censor to do something similar with edition bashing

 

[DMZ2112]

Not any more - Morrus figured out a way to get the naughty word censor to do something similar with edition bashing

...No. Just... no. What I typed into the reply box is what appeared in my post.

Sigh.

 

[Bedrockgames]

If
No, everything relying on GM ruling is, for me, a problem. If I want the session to be everyone listening - even while kibitzing - while someone tells a story I'll turn on Listen With Mother. For a roleplaying game, as far as I'm concerned, either everyone gets an active say in what's happening or it's a waste of time.

i dont want to listen to a GM's story either, but i am okay with leving certain parts of the game in the hands of GM judgement. The GM getting to make a jdgement call doesn't have to be about him imposing a story on you.

 

[Balesir]

...No. Just... no. What I typed into the reply box is what appeared in my post.

Sigh.

Yes, I guessed that - and hoped the smiley made it obvious I was being humorous...

 

[the Jester]

This is from about 8 pages ago, but:

Can you explain what this means? I still don't understand it. How does Tide of Iron give a player more "narrative control" than Charm Person?

The difference is that, while wizards have always had a degree of narrative control, now everyone else has it too.

Tide of iron lets the fighter (potentially) maneuver an enemy off the edge of a cliff or something, which is a minor bit of narrative control. There are a ton of better examples; come and get it is probably the quintessential one. It allows the pc fighter to move the enemies up to him- whether he flavors it as a taunt, as pulling the rug out from under the bad guy and jerking him towards the pc, or as the stereotypical "fingers twitch come at me bro" from all the martial arts movies, the pc gets to decide that the bad guys move up to him. This is not something that any version of D&D prior to 4e gave to the fighter.

EDITED TO ADD: Or look at the rogue power Trick Strike: If you hit, for the rest of the encounter, when you hit that enemy you can slide it 1 square. So... how and why does this work? Answer: It's up to the player.

Basically, between paragon path abilities, class powers and feats, the game really gives a lot of narrative control to all the pcs. Earlier versions more or less limited this sort of control to spellcasters.

 

[Imaro]

No, everything relying on GM ruling is, for me, a problem. If I want the session to be everyone listening - even while kibitzing - while someone tells a story I'll turn on Listen With Mother. For a roleplaying game, as far as I'm concerned, either everyone gets an active say in what's happening or it's a waste of time.

Can it be a rpg, especially the game part... if everything relies on GM ruling or is this just hyperbole to make a point...

 

[Balesir]

i dont want to listen to a GM's story either, but i am okay with leving certain parts of the game in the hands of GM judgement. The GM getting to make a jdgement call doesn't have to be about him imposing a story on you.

As an occasional occurrence, I agree, but when it applies to many or most of the things you have a character (try to) do, then I think it does.

 

[Imaro]

As an occasional occurrence, I agree, but when it applies to many or most of the things you have a character (try to) do, then I think it does.

How is GM judgement curtailed when he's still the one picking the DC, enemy,etc.? I've honestly never understood how setting a DC is any different than making a judgement call...

 

[Balesir]

Can it be a rpg, especially the game part... if everything relies on GM ruling or is this just hyperbole to make a point...

It's exaggerated somewhat to make a point, but, when I consider early D&D sessions where even whether or not you could hit a specific orc with your sword depended on the DM's picture of where everybody was positioned in the dungeon room, not by all that much.

 

[Balesir]

How is GM judgement curtailed when he's still the one picking the DC, enemy,etc.? I've honestly never understood how setting a DC is any different than making a judgement call...

The fact that, in 4e, there is guidance as to what DC is appropriate for what level of encounter helps.