Legends & Lore: A Few Rules Updates

[DMZ2112]

Hmm. I'm the total opposite. I assume adventurers in a trap-filled monster lair are ALWAYS looking around, unless they're some sort of kender/Xaositect/Malkavian type.

This isn't the same thing.

Yes, absolutely, adventurers in the Underdark are always paying very close attention to everything around them. No one is suggesting they're skipping around, sniffing the mushrooms, and admiring the fluorescent lichens on the walls. But that just makes them more likely to jump at shadows.

Perception isn't a character's ability to /see/ or /hear/, it's his ability to /discern/.

Is that babbling sound behind the wall just an underground stream? Or is it orcs? Is that hole in the wall a natural crack? Or does it conceal a hidden catch? Is that unevenness in the floor water-sculpted? Or is it a pressure plate?

Perception works both ways. A successful roll tells a PC what is there. A failed roll also tells him what is there. It just lies about it.

 

[mlund]

The one problem with passive scores is that the second-rank character never one-ups the first-rank character. That's the beauty of a volatile random element, sometimes people get to be the lucky one instead of the redundant one. Generating all those rolls, though, can bog down the flow of the game and give surprises away.

One of the habits I'm in as a DM is keeping a bank of pre-rolls around for such occasions. I just scratch off numbers from the array one at a time quietly behind my DM's screen.

Another option for handling volume while keeping things lively is to use a passive score with whatever circumstantial modifiers you want, and then select one random character of opportunity to roll actively (or gain the benefit of a hidden roll) instead of using the passive score.

- Marty Lund

 

[DMZ2112]

One of the habits I'm in as a DM is keeping a bank of pre-rolls around for such occasions. I just scratch off numbers from the array one at a time quietly behind my DM's screen.

I dunno. Do you at least cackle evilly while you do it?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I agree about everyone being auto observant. Unless you tell me you are looking around, I'm going to assume you aren't.

Hmm. I'm the total opposite. I assume adventurers in a trap-filled monster lair are ALWAYS looking around, unless they're some sort of kender/Xaositect/Malkavian type.

I think by "looking around," we mean two different things.

Yes, adventurers in a trap-filled monster lair are not being willfully obtuse. They are "on the look out for danger." On high alert. This can be assumed.

But this does not necessarily translate to them being preternaturally aware of things hidden from them. They have no special skill and are taking no special action. They are on the lookout for things that look funny, but if such a thing is trying NOT to look funny, then they have no special capacity to notice that.

In game terms, this means to me that they see everything -- if there is a desk in the corner of the room, I'm not going to hide that fact from them until someone says "I check the corner of the room." Yes, there's a desk, you can see it, you don't need to do anything special to see what is right in front of your face. I will describe the room, and I will include "there's a desk in the corner of the room" in my description, no special action required.

They see everything, unless that thing is hidden from them. If that desk is actually a mimic, they're not going to see that just because they're on high alert. Mimic trumps default. If they go up to the desk to ransack it, guess Mimic gets surprise!

Now, lets say they were in a dungeon full of mimics, or had some intel that indicated that there's desks that aren't real, or something, and they wanted to see if that desk was what it seemed to be. Or someone just gets a gut feeling that the desk is weird. That's when they get a roll: they're actively examining the thing to see if it's weird. Doing a thing with an intended outcome of getting more information. Engaging the world. No jerk DM moves like "You examine it...and it surprises you!"

They could also have some special trait. Like, if they had something like the Alertness ability above, they'd get an automatic check to prevent the Mimic from surprising them, even if they just ran over and ransacked the desk. Some sort of "dungeon sense" or "wood appraisal skill" or something might let them do the same thing. But that would be defined in the ability itself.

 

[the Jester]

Random Encounters = Fail. Unless there is a limit to the number of creatures in an area or you are traveling through an area with near unlimited creatures in it, random encounters don't make sense and seem arbitrary.

...for some playstyles.

OTOH there are plenty of playstyles in which:

No Random Encounters = Fail. Unless every creature in the area you are traveling through never leaves home, a lack of random encounters doesn't make sense and seems arbitrary.

Personally, while I have nothing against you not using random encounters, I certainly appreciate guidelines for them.

 

[Manabarbs]

It was all but a given that they'd bring the swift action back. 3.5 realized that it needed some way to clamp down on that sort of thing partway through the run, and went back and reengineered stuff to use swift actions. 4e wasn't wrong to continue to use swift (minor) actions, although you can make an argument that some of the things that 4e let you do with a minor action weren't the best idea. From the first 'bonus action' that appeared in a playtest packet, it was obvious that they'd eventually need to return to the swift action as a control tool. "No more swift/minor actions, they bog things down" is a nice sentiment, but that only works if you're willing to severely limit the number of quality of things that you let be out-of-action actions, and those are just too useful as a design tool, especially in a system as wildly complex as D&DN. (D&DN's kernal isn't wildly complex, but the system as a whole is.)

 

[Evenglare]

Perception isn't a character's ability to /see/ or /hear/, it's his ability to /discern/.

Google, Define Perception

per·cep·tion
pərˈsepSHən/Submit
noun
1. the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.

I'm laughing so hard right now. Seriously, it's the very first thing that comes up. Very. First. Thing. I understand what you are trying to say, but seriously.... wow.

 

[DMZ2112]

Google, Define Perception

per·cep·tion
pərˈsepSHən/Submit
noun
1. the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.

I'm laughing so hard right now. Seriously, it's the very first thing that comes up. Very. First. Thing. I understand what you are trying to say, but seriously.... wow.

I see that you are correct. Let me try to use it in a sentence, to make sure I understand: "Once Evenglare is added to my ignore list, he/she/it will be beyond my perception."

PERCEPTION (Wis) Your senses allow you to notice fine details and alert you to danger.

The key words here are "notice" and "alert." Paraphrasing Sherlock Holmes again: Everyone sees; no one observes. The distinction is clear.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Hmm. I'm the total opposite. I assume adventurers in a trap-filled monster lair are ALWAYS looking around, unless they're some sort of kender/Xaositect/Malkavian type.

Ahhhh! All three in one character? That is truly terrifying.

One of the habits I'm in as a DM is keeping a bank of pre-rolls around for such occasions. I just scratch off numbers from the array one at a time quietly behind my DM's screen.

At the start of every session, I have my players roll five or ten Perception checks. Then, if I need passive perception or a secret check for them, I look down at my sheet. I also don't simply put the numbers in the same order that they are rolled.

 

[TwoSix]

Now, lets say they were in a dungeon full of mimics, or had some intel that indicated that there's desks that aren't real, or something, and they wanted to see if that desk was what it seemed to be. Or someone just gets a gut feeling that the desk is weird. That's when they get a roll: they're actively examining the thing to see if it's weird. Doing a thing with an intended outcome of getting more information. Engaging the world. No jerk DM moves like "You examine it...and it surprises you!"

The problem with that approach (such as it is a problem) is that it forces a consideration of environmental minutiae that I simply have no desire to bring into a game. Which, of course, is why I don't use things like mimics, or cloakers, or any other kind of "player wasn't being suitably paranoid" encounter. For my desires in a RPG, making the players paranoid sucks. Just give me a number that tells me who surprises who, thanks.