Legends & Lore: Clas Groups

[Tovec]

Show me where I called anyone an idiot? Nevermind, just another troll to put on ignore.

Its too bad you are ignoring me, I don't ignore you even though I think you are trolling us; saying the same thing over and over without concessions.

Who say's the staff of a magi is a F15? Who says all "pilots" can fly F15s? What are the requirements to fly an F15? How about someone who knows how to fly a F15 but is not (or ever been) in the airforce?

EDIT: Show me where I said you did call us idiots.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Well, ok, then, to continue the pilot analogy, if they are both pilots, the bard flies a cropduster. That doesn't mean he can fly an F15.

Okay, I can dig that, depending on your explanation (and I say that honestly). What, fictionally, makes the Wizard so much more knowledgeable that he's capable at level 1, where a Bard isn't by level 20?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Okay, I can dig that, depending on your explanation (and I say that honestly). What, fictionally, makes the Wizard so much more knowledgeable that he's capable at level 1, where a Bard isn't by level 20?

I don't know how else to explain it. You view the bard as somewhat of a wizard because he casts arcane spells. I don't. They may use some of the same tools, but they are a completely different persuasion. I see a bard as a rogue who happens to know a few spells.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I don't know how else to explain it. You view the bard as somewhat of a wizard because he casts arcane spells. I don't. They may use some of the same tools, but they are a completely different persuasion. I see a bard as a rogue who happens to know a few spells.

I guess that's the difference. I see the Bard as better than 99-99.9% of the population when it comes to arcane magic, as well as being extremely knowledgeable (generally speaking). If the Staff of the Magi needs to be used by someone who is capable in arcane magic, and who is knowledgeable about magic, then the Bard fits.

I haven't heard why the Bard doesn't work for you, I just accept that it doesn't. If you can't explain it, I'll stop asking questions, but so far all I've heard is basically "they're different" but not much on why they are (other than "the Bard is a rogue with a few spells"). I'm okay ending the conversation here, if there's nowhere else we can go.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Hmm... currently the bard really only happens to know few spells... nothing really magelike...

So I think, class groupings can help for magic items. I can perfectly see them using it as prerequisite. I don´t see a problem however, also using "being able to cast arcane spells" as other prerequisites. They could also be combined with AND or OR.

 

[Li Shenron]

Seems to me he addressed your question the very paragraph you quoted. They have the magical oomph. The game represents this in multiple ways, not the least of which is full casting ability.

There are always possible counterarguments: Clerics and Druids have full casting ability, but cannot use a Staff of the Magi; Wizards understand spells through hard study, while Warlocks just get them as part of a deal and never truly understand them, so they don't have the "oomph" to also understand how a Staff of the Magi works.

Mine was of course a rhetorical question. I do not care what you or the other poster answer to "Why?". The possible answers in favor or against (including my own counterarguments, which are made up on the spot, I don't actually believe in them) are all reasonable and worthless at the same time.

A Staff of the Magi (SotM) is simply usable by anyone you want it to be able to.

There is no fundamental reason why a game where all (and only) Wizards, Sorcerers and Warlock can use a SotM is a better game or a more reasonable game than another where only all Wizards can, or another where all spellcasters can, or another where "only arcane spellcasters of at least 5th level can, provided they are Lawful Good and born on Monday", or another where only a few individuals chosen by fate can.

The only obvious discriminant is if the SotM works in a way that is not applicable to some characters. If the SotM description says something about spell slots, and the character does not have spell slots, then the SotM as written cannot be used by that character.

The rest is up to the designers, they can do what they want: they can make the SotM usable by all Mages or by Wizards only. They are both "correct design". Then if you want to play by the book you follow their decision, but you can always change it to fit your preferences and nobody has the right to tell you that you should not.

 

[steeldragons]

How 'bout...just going the "old school" route?

Under the Staff of the Magi, it will say, quite clearly, "Mages only."

Under BARD it reads, "The due to their extensive knowledge in legends and lore coupled with their spell-casting capacity and magical know how, the Bard is the only class with access to all types of magical items, as well as enchanted armor or weapons with which they have proficiency."

And each table can figure out which way the wind [of the Staff of the Magi] blows on their own.

 

[SkidAce]

How 'bout...just going the "old school" route?

Under the Staff of the Magi, it will say, quite clearly, "Mages only."

Under BARD it reads, "The due to their extensive knowledge in legends and lore coupled with their spell-casting capacity and magical know how, the Bard is the only class with access to all types of magical items, as well as enchanted armor or weapons with which they have proficiency."

And each table can figure out which way the wind [of the Staff of the Magi] blows on their own.

I approve.

 

[TwoSix]

How 'bout...just going the "old school" route?

Under the Staff of the Magi, it will say, quite clearly, "Mages only."

Under BARD it reads, "The due to their extensive knowledge in legends and lore coupled with their spell-casting capacity and magical know how, the Bard is the only class with access to all types of magical items, as well as enchanted armor or weapons with which they have proficiency."

And each table can figure out which way the wind [of the Staff of the Magi] blows on their own.

I would probably lose the "only class" text, as that presupposes that another class will not be added with the same ability. Other than that, seems fine.

 

[I'm A Banana]

How 'bout...just going the "old school" route?

Under the Staff of the Magi, it will say, quite clearly, "Mages only."

Under BARD it reads, "The due to their extensive knowledge in legends and lore coupled with their spell-casting capacity and magical know how, the Bard is the only class with access to all types of magical items, as well as enchanted armor or weapons with which they have proficiency."

And each table can figure out which way the wind [of the Staff of the Magi] blows on their own.

This reminds me that these groups are very helpful for old-school styles. You might do something like "Dwarves can only be priests and warriors" or somesuch.

Not that this makes me personally like it any better...