Leif's DISCONTINUED GURPS Traveller Game OOC01
- Thread starter Leif
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grufflehead
First Post
As you seem to be pretty clued up Shayuri, what's your take on the 'mechanic' vs 'engineer' skill question. I find the rules a bit unclear as the mechanic skill says you can 'find problems' and 'repair them'; plus the categories (like Stardrive etc) seem much more suited to someone who is trying to keep a spaceship running. The engineer skill meanwhile says it allows the character to 'diagnose a mechanical or electrical problem' and 'perform a repair'; the categories seem a bit broad and not really specific to spaceship-type issues.
What do you think would be most useful for this game? I was going to major on several different mechanic specialisations, and take a couple of engineer groups just for completeness sake.
What do you think would be most useful for this game? I was going to major on several different mechanic specialisations, and take a couple of engineer groups just for completeness sake.
Leif
Adventurer
Here's the thing: I like both Grufflehead's and Shayuri's character concepts, and both seem to point toward obtaining a starship ASAP. Do the two of you want to hash this out between yourselves, or should I fire up the old deus ex machina engine? (I really hate that da**** thing!)
grufflehead
First Post
Honestly, I'm fine either way. The feel I want to get for my characer is that he's essentially a highly skilled mechanic (or engineer - someone please answer that question!) who does it largely through intuition rather than formal training. He's from a poor background, and somewhere along the line, someone (either Shayuri, a 'patron' or another plot device) has come across him fixing something and thought 'hey, I bet this guy would be great at keeping a ship running' - offered him some money and he's gone with them because it's more money than he'd ever earn any other way, and it means he can send some back to support his family.
Okay, here's some thoughts.
First, Gruffle, the difference between Engineer and Mechanic is that an Engineer has sufficient education to design and develop new inventions based on that skill. Consider the difference between a grease monkey at a mechanics shop...and the guy who designed and built the engine in the first place. Said grease monkey can keep it running. He can take it apart and put it together again. But he can't really analyze the design (beyond "this model seems like it always breaks on the pinion joints!" type observations), nor could he design an entirely new engine.
GURPS Engineers (perhaps unrealistically) can not only service and repair the subjects of their skills, but can gain detailed technical understanding of them by studying them, or schematics. They can attempt to design improvements and implement them. Engineering can do anything Mechanics can do, and more.
Additionally, there's no such skill as Mechanics (Jump Drive). You -have- to have Engineering, because that skill is required to plot the jump, as well as maintain and repair the drive.
---
Now, as for the ship...
I suggest that you and I link our backgrounds somehow. Then both our characters have a stake in the ship. This would probably happen anyway, because a ship needs, at minimum, two skills to run it. A pilot, and a jump engineer. Sometimes, like with single-operator Scout Service ships, those can both be done by one person, but that's uncommon.
So for example...
What if my character's father, who is an asteroid prospector (a 'belter') has associations with your character somehow. Perhaps professional, perhaps personal...friend of the family...you saved his life...whatever. Now his big find is a derelict starship, which under right of salvage is now his. He's planning on selling it and retiring, but there's an accident of some kind that leads to his demise. The ship is in his will to the two most important people he had left at the time...my character, and yours.
It would have taken time and money to refurbish it and get it spaceworthy again, but we decided to do exactly that, even though we could have gotten a goodly chunk of change by just selling off the hulk.
The precise nature of the ship is of course, up to the GM...though it shouldn't be anything obviously special, since the Imperium would have confiscated something like that.
First, Gruffle, the difference between Engineer and Mechanic is that an Engineer has sufficient education to design and develop new inventions based on that skill. Consider the difference between a grease monkey at a mechanics shop...and the guy who designed and built the engine in the first place. Said grease monkey can keep it running. He can take it apart and put it together again. But he can't really analyze the design (beyond "this model seems like it always breaks on the pinion joints!" type observations), nor could he design an entirely new engine.
GURPS Engineers (perhaps unrealistically) can not only service and repair the subjects of their skills, but can gain detailed technical understanding of them by studying them, or schematics. They can attempt to design improvements and implement them. Engineering can do anything Mechanics can do, and more.
Additionally, there's no such skill as Mechanics (Jump Drive). You -have- to have Engineering, because that skill is required to plot the jump, as well as maintain and repair the drive.
---
Now, as for the ship...
I suggest that you and I link our backgrounds somehow. Then both our characters have a stake in the ship. This would probably happen anyway, because a ship needs, at minimum, two skills to run it. A pilot, and a jump engineer. Sometimes, like with single-operator Scout Service ships, those can both be done by one person, but that's uncommon.
So for example...
What if my character's father, who is an asteroid prospector (a 'belter') has associations with your character somehow. Perhaps professional, perhaps personal...friend of the family...you saved his life...whatever. Now his big find is a derelict starship, which under right of salvage is now his. He's planning on selling it and retiring, but there's an accident of some kind that leads to his demise. The ship is in his will to the two most important people he had left at the time...my character, and yours.
It would have taken time and money to refurbish it and get it spaceworthy again, but we decided to do exactly that, even though we could have gotten a goodly chunk of change by just selling off the hulk.
The precise nature of the ship is of course, up to the GM...though it shouldn't be anything obviously special, since the Imperium would have confiscated something like that.
Leif
Adventurer
Go for it, you two! As for the ship, I'm perfectly willing to let the players choose (I suppose I should add, 'within reason,' but I'm really not planning to be very restrictive at all here.) All I'll say is that a Scout ship is probably WAY to small, and it really needs to have more Jump capability than a Free Trader, say at least Jump-2, maybe even more than that. I'd also recommend a fairly substantial cargo hold, but, in the final analysis, that's up to you as well.Now, as for the ship...
I suggest that you and I link our backgrounds somehow. Then both our characters have a stake in the ship. [GM/Referee edit: I'm all for this!]
So for example...
What if my character's father, who is an asteroid prospector (a 'belter') has associations with your character somehow. Perhaps professional, perhaps personal...friend of the family...you saved his life...whatever. Now his big find is a derelict starship, which under right of salvage is now his. He's planning on selling it and retiring, but there's an accident of some kind that leads to his demise. The ship is in his will to the two most important people he had left at the time...my character, and yours.
It would have taken time and money to refurbish it and get it spaceworthy again, but we decided to do exactly that, even though we could have gotten a goodly chunk of change by just selling off the hulk.
The precise nature of the ship is of course, up to the GM...though it shouldn't be anything obviously special, since the Imperium would have confiscated something like that.
Leif
Adventurer
Possible Ship?
If I might be so bold .... what do you folk think about the Yetsabl Class Zhodani Courier? (It's TL12, built on a 200-ton hull, has 9 staterooms, 1 sickbay (a given), needs 4-5 crew, makes 6.4 Gs and Jump 2). If you have the books, it's on pgs. 47, 54, and 55 of GURPS Traveller Alien Races 1. This is the ship that originally inspired me in this game, and the reason Scotley is playing a Zhodani. The Jump-2 is marginal, really, but perhaps this could be modified? It's only got 11 tons of cargo space, but it does have some surplus stateroom space that could possibly be converted into cargo hold and/or more jump drive?
If I might be so bold .... what do you folk think about the Yetsabl Class Zhodani Courier? (It's TL12, built on a 200-ton hull, has 9 staterooms, 1 sickbay (a given), needs 4-5 crew, makes 6.4 Gs and Jump 2). If you have the books, it's on pgs. 47, 54, and 55 of GURPS Traveller Alien Races 1. This is the ship that originally inspired me in this game, and the reason Scotley is playing a Zhodani. The Jump-2 is marginal, really, but perhaps this could be modified? It's only got 11 tons of cargo space, but it does have some surplus stateroom space that could possibly be converted into cargo hold and/or more jump drive?
Insight
Adventurer
If Doc has a ship, it's probably not "with us". It's a personal vessel for planetary and perhaps some minor interplanetary travel. He keeps it parked, er, somewhere. In any event, it's not something terribly interesting to my understanding of the scale of this game. I suppose if the "group ship" is big enough, perhaps Doc's vessel could fit inside. Not sure how workable that is.
My plan was for him to travel around on the "group" ship. I figure Doc is a hired hand at this point, or perhaps slightly more than that.
If I get a vote, I like both Shayuri's idea and Leif's idea. Perhaps they can be made to coalesce.
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Leif
Adventurer
An interplanetary ship, as opposed to a starship, say for example a Cutter or Pinnace, can easily be used as a ship's boat on a starship, and often is, provided that there is sufficient room, and in most cases there should be plenty.
I think flying around the Imperium in a Zhodani starship is a very risky, and possibly suicidal move. That's assuming you don't houserule the relationship between those two stellar states.
The standard Far Trader design is a bit more suited for freight hauling. It's not as glamorous in terms of its performance, but it has a lot more cargo space, and it's a very respectable Jump 2.
As far as jump drives go, you don't find many civilian ships with more than jump 2 or 3, if memory serves. The cost of the drive increases very rapidly, as does the fuel consumption (and thus, the amount of space required to have one).
A Far Trader could probably be upgraded to Jump 3, at the cost of cargo space. Beyond that, we'd have to make the hull larger.
I'll see if I can find some possible designs...or a custom one could be made.
That's assuming you don't houserule the relationship between those two stellar states.The standard Far Trader design is a bit more suited for freight hauling. It's not as glamorous in terms of its performance, but it has a lot more cargo space, and it's a very respectable Jump 2.
As far as jump drives go, you don't find many civilian ships with more than jump 2 or 3, if memory serves. The cost of the drive increases very rapidly, as does the fuel consumption (and thus, the amount of space required to have one).
A Far Trader could probably be upgraded to Jump 3, at the cost of cargo space. Beyond that, we'd have to make the hull larger.
I'll see if I can find some possible designs...or a custom one could be made.
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