D&D 5E Leomund's Tiny Hut in Tight Places

[tetrasodium]

Oh good grief...

"All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it." - 5e clause that doesn't exist in earlier editions

"Spells and other magical effects can’t extend through the dome or be cast through it." - Another 5e clause that doesn't exist in earlier editions

Yeah, they've created a 7th to 9th level spell in a third level slot.

Originally, the sphere of force was strong enough to keep out light objects and wind, but not strong enough to keep out hostile creatures, spell effects, missile weapons, ect.

I'd say some designer needs to be slapped with a tuna. Things like this just make DM's lives a living heck.

Yea, the spell as written is extremely problematic, but it doesn't say anything about a floor. Unfortunately there are only so many burrowing monsters. in 3.5(?) you had the "well the baddies pick it up & drop it in a trap pit they cover with several hundred pounds of rock/roll it down the mountain & it at least made it uncertain enough to not be open door>nova>lets take a long rest whenever there's no doom clock

 

[Celebrim]

Yea, the spell as written is extremely problematic...

The spell as written is an insult to the intelligence of the reader that makes me think the spell was edited by someone that has never GMed an RPG in their life. There is no defending it. This isn't a case of something slipping through the cracks or ambiguous wording or anything like that.

There is no sense talking about how to rule on this spell. You either go back to a less problematic wording, or rule this spell right out of your freaking campaign.

Like who couldn't have seen problems with an 8 hour duration wall of force that the PC's could pass in and out of.

 

[Oofta]

The spell as written is an insult to the intelligence of the reader that makes me think the spell was edited by someone that has never GMed an RPG in their life. There is no defending it. This isn't a case of something slipping through the cracks or ambiguous wording or anything like that.

There is no sense talking about how to rule on this spell. You either go back to a less problematic wording, or rule this spell right out of your freaking campaign.

Like who couldn't have seen problems with an 8 hour duration wall of force that the PC's could pass in and out of.

I'm not the biggest fan of the spell but it's not that bad. It's not camoflauged at all, it has no floor and has no flexibility. You can't cast spells out of it so an intelligent monster can just set up an ambush once the duration is over while they call for reinforcements. Even a moderately intelligent monster can craft some kind of shield wall, walk up to it and either bury it or dig underneath.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm not the biggest fan of the spell but it's not that bad. It's not camoflauged at all, it has no floor and has no flexibility. You can't cast spells out of it so an intelligent monster can just set up an ambush once the duration is over while they call for reinforcements. Even a moderately intelligent monster can craft some kind of shield wall, walk up to it and either bury it or dig underneath.

These are all encounter design issues and you are making massive assumptions about what an encounter looks like or must look like. Just used as a wall of force that you can use to shape the dungeon terrain and also scout through and as a fall back position, this is massively broken. One of the biggest problems in dungeoneering is figuring out how to secure your fall back so that you can retreat out of a situation. This turns all of those issues into non-issues. Likewise, one of the biggest problems in dungeoneering is avoiding cascading reinforcements arriving. But with this, you can wall off entrances for very little cost because as a secure fallback and short rest position, you'll get value out of it even if it doesn't block something from coming from the left while you are trying to deal with something on the right. The only saving grace of this spell is the 1 minute casting time, but the fact that you can do it as a ritual means you can basically do it at will so any time you can spare a minute you can probably spare 10. Which means that if I'm a wizard I'm literally spamming this thing all the way through the dungeon, putting one at basically every intersection and chokepoint and doorway. Because why the heck not.

Which means even if there is some intelligent monster response to that tactic, you've taken a minor utility spell and made it game defining.

And it honestly gets worse. Because the spell is transparent from the inside but opaque from the inside, and because objects that were inside the dome when it was cast can pass through it, I've not only blinded the monsters but not myself, but if the monsters are trying to deal with the problem I can easily fill them with arrows while they cannot reply in return. It's not only a portable barrier, but a portable bunker.

There is just no defending this kind of thing.

 

[tetrasodium]

I'm not the biggest fan of the spell but it's not that bad. It's not camoflauged at all, it has no floor and has no flexibility. You can't cast spells out of it so an intelligent monster can just set up an ambush once the duration is over while they call for reinforcements. Even a moderately intelligent monster can craft some kind of shield wall, walk up to it and either bury it or dig underneath.

you can see through it & it says something very different from "can't cast spells out of it", it says "Spells and other magical effects can’t extend through the dome or be cast through it." and the caster can determine if it i not just if transparent or opaque but explicitly gets "
The dome is opaque from the outside, of any color you choose, but it is transparent from the inside.". Yet there are gobs of spells that say X happens "point(s) you can see within range.". Sure it will stop fireball & cone/line/ray spells that explicitly travel along a path, but there are so many spells where you just need to see the point & cause something to happen there that it's absurd & beggars belief that anyone who looked at the spells chapter then thought it was reasonable as written

 

[Mort]

These are all encounter design issues and you are making massive assumptions about what an encounter looks like or must look like. Just used as a wall of force that you can use to shape the dungeon terrain and also scout through and as a fall back position, this is massively broken. One of the biggest problems in dungeoneering is figuring out how to secure your fall back so that you can retreat out of a situation. This turns all of those issues into non-issues. Likewise, one of the biggest problems in dungeoneering is avoiding cascading reinforcements arriving. But with this, you can wall off entrances for very little cost because as a secure fallback and short rest position, you'll get value out of it even if it doesn't block something from coming from the left while you are trying to deal with something on the right. The only saving grace of this spell is the 1 minute casting time, but the fact that you can do it as a ritual means you can basically do it at will so any time you can spare a minute you can probably spare 10. Which means that if I'm a wizard I'm literally spamming this thing all the way through the dungeon, putting one at basically every intersection and chokepoint and doorway. Because why the heck not.

Which means even if there is some intelligent monster response to that tactic, you've taken a minor utility spell and made it game defining.

And it honestly gets worse. Because the spell is transparent from the inside but opaque from the inside, and because objects that were inside the dome when it was cast can pass through it, I've not only blinded the monsters but not myself, but if the monsters are trying to deal with the problem I can easily fill them with arrows while they cannot reply in return. It's not only a portable barrier, but a portable bunker.

There is just no defending this kind of thing.

As soon as the wizard leaves the hut, the spell ends. So no spamming multiples of the thing, or leaving it behind you to clog an area.

 

[Celebrim]

you can see through it & it says something very different from "can't cast spells out of it", it says "Spells and other magical effects can’t extend through the dome or be cast through it." and the caster can determine if it i not just if transparent or opaque but explicitly gets "...Sure it will stop fireball & cone/line/ray spells that explicitly travel along a path, but there are so many spells where you just need to see the point & cause something to happen there that it's absurd & beggars belief that anyone who looked at the spells chapter then thought it was reasonable as written

At least that issue is a rules lawyerly ambigious wording issue that could be fixed with errata that made it clear it blocked line of effect. Even if you rule that you can't cast a spell that targets something outside of the sphere, it's clear from the new wording that you can stab spears through the sides of the sphere at the kobolds or goblins investigating it, or fire arrows at the orcs setting up an ambush. So you still have a huge problem quite apart from any rulings you could make.

 

[Celebrim]

As soon as the wizard leaves the hut, the spell ends. So no spamming multiples of the thing, or leaving it behind you to clog an area.

Oh, good point. At least it doesn't have that problem. So no more than one portable bunker per caster at a time...

I can still spam them, but at least I can't have multiples without henchmen.

New spell title: "Leomund's Secure Fighting Position"

 

[Oofta]

Like I said, I don't like the spell. But having every enemy in the entire area know that you're sitting in a fixed location is not great either. It is only a little worse than rope trick.

you can see through it & it says something very different from "can't cast spells out of it", it says "Spells and other magical effects can’t extend through the dome or be cast through it." and the caster can determine if it i not just if transparent or opaque but explicitly gets "
The dome is opaque from the outside, of any color you choose, but it is transparent from the inside.". Yet there are gobs of spells that say X happens "point(s) you can see within range.". Sure it will stop fireball & cone/line/ray spells that explicitly travel along a path, but there are so many spells where you just need to see the point & cause something to happen there that it's absurd & beggars belief that anyone who looked at the spells chapter then thought it was reasonable as written

Huh? It stops spells. "Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it". I'd interpret that as you can't even teleport out of the thing.

Saying it's the most broken thing ever or insulting the intelligence of the person that wrote it goes overboard.

 

[Oofta]

At least that issue is a rules lawyerly ambigious wording issue that could be fixed with errata that made it clear it blocked line of effect. Even if you rule that you can't cast a spell that targets something outside of the sphere, it's clear from the new wording that you can stab spears through the sides of the sphere at the kobolds or goblins investigating it, or fire arrows at the orcs setting up an ambush. So you still have a huge problem quite apart from any rulings you could make.

I think "spells can't extend or be cast through it" is pretty clear.

The last time a party in my campaign tried this the enemy built a shield wall, converged on their location and started throwing in bundles of wood soaked in tar. The plan was to wait for the hut to collapse, trapping the PCs inside and then light it on fire.

Oh, and the enemy had called for reinforcements first.