Les Miserables

[Umbran]

but can Amanda Seyfried sing?

Her first major movie role was in "Mamma Mia!", a "jukebox musical" of Abba tunes.

It doesn't matter...

It does matter, or they wouldn't have bothered to cast a whole bunch of people who can sing - casting would be far, far easier if they could just use stunt voices for everyone. Generally speaking, singing voices and speaking voices are not the same, but are related, and the audience can tell the difference. They can also tell if you auto-tune the crap out of things when the actor's voice isn't quite up to snuff.

 

[Mercutio01]

Her first major movie role was in "Mamma Mia!", a "jukebox musical" of Abba tunes.

Thanks. Didn't know that. Not an ABBA fan so I didn't bother watching that.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It does matter, or they wouldn't have bothered to cast a whole bunch of people who can sing - casting would be far, far easier if they could just use stunt voices for everyone. Generally speaking, singing voices and speaking voices are not the same, but are related, and the audience can tell the difference. They can also tell if you auto-tune the crap out of things when the actor's voice isn't quite up to snuff.

Hollywood has a long tradition of overdubbing singing parts. It mainly comes down to whether the actor's singing matches what the director hears in his head.

Non-Singing Voice - Television Tropes & Idioms

Some voice actors make a career of overdubbing singing for movies, like Marni Nixon.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/ae/articles/2008/06/15/20080615fairlady0615.htm

Mark Wahlberg, despite launching his career as a singer in a boy band, had his character's songs in Rock Star overdubbed by actual metal singers Mike Matijevic (Steelheart) and Jeff Scott Sotto (Malmsteen and other bands). Almost all of the other musicians in the movie performed their own music...and there were a lot of them.

In Woody Allen's movie, Everyone Says I Love You, everyone sang their own parts...except Drew Barrymore.

OTOH, Marlon Brando really couldn't sing, but his distinctive voice was really wanted by the director of Guys & Dolls- they pieced his performances together from dozens of takes.

And of course, some movies like Rock of Ages, Evita and others do let the stars do the singing. (I've heard some clips...it may work for the movie, but I don't think I'm buying that soundtrack.)

 

[Dire Bare]

And of course, some movies like Rock of Ages, Evita and others do let the stars do the singing. (I've heard some clips...it may work for the movie, but I don't think I'm buying that soundtrack.)

Having extensive stage experience, and a bit of film experience as well, I'm with Umbran that the two are different beasts.

An actor who would be wonderful for a part in a stage version of a story might truly be a terrible choice for a film version, due to the differences in the media. Sure, you could CGI the dude and overdub his voice, but why would you want to? It's much easier to simply cast the "right" person for the role (and media). And CGI and overdubbing is not so good that the audience won't notice, especially in a musical. Plus, they are added expenses to achieve a sub-optimal product.

Now, of course, casting directors have often cast the "wrong" person for a role, for various reasons. That includes some one who can't sing for a role that requires it, resulting in a crappy performance or one that requires CGI and overdubbing. In a movie where singing isn't the main "task" for an actor, which wouldn't be a musical but very well could be a film about a musician/band, overdubbing can work. There might not be enough singing for the audience to clue in, or the way it is shot may make things easier. In a musical, it's all about the music, the actors are singing all the time, and while they are singing the camera is very focused on their faces, because that is the genre.

Also, conventions of the genre. We accept CGI and voice work in scifi/fantasy/superhero films . . . but the musical genre doesn't really, at least not the overdubbing or voice work. Never say never, but I would be intensely surprised if very many earlier film musicals made extensive use of overdubbing or CGI to enhance a character.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Never say never, but I would be intensely surprised if very many earlier film musicals made extensive use of overdubbing or CGI to enhance a character.

(...ignoring CGI for the eras that proceeded it...)

Well, like I said, there's Marlon Brando...

And movie musicals ARE rife with performances by people who probably shouldn't/wouldn't be allowed to sing in most cases. Look at Paint Your Wagon, for instance.

But in those cases, like Brando's, the actors' voices were so distinctive that they probably couldn't find a pro to mimic them.

Then there are things that just happen- everybody knows how and why Buddy Ebsen lost the role of the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz, few know that his vocals were still used in the song "We're off to see the Wizard" instead of Jack Haley's.

Still, some times, the director trumps practicality for his vision: Natalie Wood, Richard Beymer and Rita Moreno (!!!) all had their songs overdubbed in West Side Story.

The thing is, near as I can tell, it's a trend that gained steam post-WW2. Those early B&W musicals? I doubt there was a non-singer in the cast for a lot of them. Why? Because, except for the stars, they often had people doing multiple roles.

But after that point, you see more and more (though not MANY) overdubbed singing for leads in movie musicals.

 

[Dire Bare]

(...ignoring CGI for the eras that proceeded it...)

Well, like I said, there's Marlon Brando...

And movie musicals ARE rife with performances by people who probably shouldn't/wouldn't be allowed to sing in most cases. Look at Paint Your Wagon, for instance.

But in those cases, like Brando's, the actors' voices were so distinctive that they probably couldn't find a pro to mimic them.

Then there are things that just happen- everybody knows how and why Buddy Ebsen lost the role of the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz, few know that his vocals were still used in the song "We're off to see the Wizard" instead of Jack Haley's.

Still, some times, the director trumps practicality for his vision: Natalie Wood, Richard Beymer and Rita Moreno (!!!) all had their songs overdubbed in West Side Story.

The thing is, near as I can tell, it's a trend that gained steam post-WW2. Those early B&W musicals? I doubt there was a non-singer in the cast for a lot of them. Why? Because, except for the stars, they often had people doing multiple roles.

But after that point, you see more and more (though not MANY) overdubbed singing for leads in movie musicals.

Okay, I'm surprised! And you definitely have excellent knowledge of film trivia, lots of good examples! However, it still seems as if most of your examples aren't ideal situations. In both stage and film, casting a poor singer in a musical due to the actor's distinctive personality and perhaps voice isn't necessarily a bad choice, but to overdub due to production problems (losing an actor) or because of a simply poor casting choice kinda supports my view (well, in my view, that is). Sure, you can overdub, but how often do you go into the casting process for a film musical thinking, "I can cast anybody and just overdub their crappy voice?" It seems more a fix for a production problem, rather than a viable tool to create a good film from the outset.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think what happens these days is that the director & casting director feel a role should go a certain way, possible due to influence from a powerful producer. They know they have a musical to film, but they want Actor X in the role to ensure they get butts in seats. Nobody these days wants to risk $50+M without some kind of built-in hedge for drawing an audience.

Whether Actor X can sing is a secondary consideration, a bonus.

Otherwise, they'd get more Broadway types to reprise their roles. I mean, look at 1776- lots of the Broadway cast in that film. And there are a lot of Broadway performers trying to break into tv & movies. Brent Spiner is a classic modern example, but if you look back to the early musicals, you find a LOT of Broadway vets.

Instead, we get famous actors who may or may not have some singing chops.

Addendum: I've looked at a few more examples of overdubs in older movies like The King And I (Marni Nixon again)- found another reason often used to justify the overdubbing. Sometimes, even if the actor can sing, they may not have the range (octaves) or strength of delivery to perform the song as written or envisioned. When that happens, they only have a few options:

1) recast the role- often impractical or cost prohibitive.

2) transcribe the song into the actor's range- time consuming and, while not expensive, is not free. It may also not have the same feel after the transcription. (I've found that even in my own compositions- sometimes that high d chord just HAS to be used.)

3) do a lot of takes and piece it together (see Marlon Brando)

4) use a singer to either add some range to the actor's vocals (partial overdub) or to do the song completely.

 

[delericho]

It's a really bad idea to cast someone who simply cannot sing. Sure, they can clean it up, but...

Pierce Brosnan's 'performance' in "Mamma Mia" transforms what is a surprisingly enjoyable movie into a piece of unwatchable dreck. Everyone else ranges from 'tolerable' to 'quite good actually', but his singing is just painful. And as the male lead, he has a couple of significant numbers to carry.

(I don't understand why they didn't overdub his role, or better still cast someone who could actually sing. It's not as if his star power was a big factor in people going to see the film. Of course, neither did his singing prevent women from going to see it in huge numbers, or then buying the DVD... so it only matters to the poor partners of those women, who have to endure the abomination.)

Crowe and Jackman could well be perfect casting, if Russell Crowe can sing. Hopefully, for the second trailer they'll use an appropriate segment from "Work Song" or "Confrontation", just to prove it.

 

[Mercutio01]

Crowe and Jackman could well be perfect casting, if Russell Crowe can sing. Hopefully, for the second trailer they'll use an appropriate segment from "Work Song" or "Confrontation", just to prove it.

Crowe has been the lead singer and front man for two groups over the last 20 years or so - 30 Odd Foot of Grunts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But that is R&R, which doesn't necessarily translate into musical theater. It's not a bar, either- Sebastian Bach was in Sweeny Todd.

Of course, crossing musical genres can be fraught with hazards for even the most highly regarded vocalists. One of the most unintentionally hilarious performances I've ever heard was Luciano Pavarotti "helping out" B. B. King on "The Thrill Is Gone" (from one of the Luciano & Friends CDs).