D&D 5E Less killing

[Cadence]

Not just proficiency bonus. Hit points, class abilities, feats; all of these things have a potential (sometimes very heavy potential) of making you better at combat.

Being better in combat makes one better at killing... does it also make one better at testing the morale of foes and pushing them towards wanting to surrender/run-away/bargain (assuming the world doesn't resort to mutual destruction all the time)?

 

[Vaalingrade]

I really appreciate the suggestions so far. I am aware of the exhaustion death spiral and that's... that's kind of my feelings coming through about

• violence
• situations that risk violent death
• the toll both the above takes on soldiers and survivors

In my mind, that's more than the binary where 0 = knockout or 0 hp = kill, and the experience of people in war almost stand in direct opposition to the concept of combat experience.

Pardon me for asking, but how old are your kids?

Because PTSD and the murder effect seem to be pretty weighty topics to put on kids.

 

[Charlaquin]

Pardon me for asking, but how old are your kids?

Because PTSD and the murder effect seem to be pretty weighty topics to put on kids.

An argument could be made that it would be better to do that than to treat violence as trivial or even fun. But at that point I think it would be better still to avoid the subject. If you’re too young to engage with the tragic consequences of violence, you’re too young to engage with violence at all.

EDIT: Of course, this is all speaking very theoretically. The reality of the situation is, kids don’t grow up in a vacuum, and they’re going to be exposed to violent media no matter what. I was that kid who’s parents didn’t let them have any toy weapons or watch Power Rangers because it was too violent, and let me tell you, I took advantage of every opportunity I could to play with my friends’ toy weapons and watch all the shows I wasn’t allowed to at home.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Being better in combat makes one better at killing... does it also make one better at testing the morale of foes and pushing them towards wanting to surrender/run-away/bargain (assuming the world doesn't resort to mutual destruction all the time)?

If you've modified the rules to.make those viable mechanical options, then yes, absolutely.

 

[Vaalingrade]

An argument could be made that it would be better to do that than to treat violence as trivial or even fun. But at that point I think it would be better still to avoid the subject. If you’re too young to engage with the tragic consequences of violence, you’re too young to engage with violence at all.

Or the difference between simulated violence and the real thing.

 

[Charlaquin]

Or the difference between simulated violence and the real thing.

Simulacra have very real effects on the real world. It’s still important to consider what messages media sends, even as we recognize that it is artificial.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Simulacra have very real effects on the real world. It’s still important to consider what messages media sends, even as we recognize that it is artificial.

Of course, that allows the argument that violence shouldn't be shone in something meant for entertainment at all. Even so, I agree with the principle.

 

[Voadam]

If you want fun fantasy swords and magic action with your kids that avoids killing then I add my voice to those saying change the default 0 monster hp = dead body to 0 hp = defeated foe.

There are plenty of models to base your game on. I suggest childrens cartoons. Avatar the Last Airbender, Samurai Jack, He-Man, Thundarr the Barbarian, Herculoids, TMNT, all have plenty of fighting with swords and some magic but generally no body counts.

These are fun, these are fantasy, the heroes get to swing big swords. There are generally no piles of people corpses.

You have options like the Samurai Jack one where you are not having your kids kill people, but robot type stand-ins. Skeletons, constructs, magical outsider demons that go poof are good D&D ones.

You can have the kobolds be stand ins for street thugs and the heroes leave them knocked out at 0 hp, perhaps with a note from their friendly neighborhood spider-adventurers.

You can have 0 hp means the bad guys run away or surrender.

 

[Blue]

I'm going to point out here that it's not the combat rules so much as the XP system that's at fault here.

I completely agree with your points about the XP system, but think it shares the blame with the the character creation/advancement and monster rules. Even when you change to milestone levelling (which I have for years/editions), combat is still a all-characters-designed-to-participate option that has much more mechanical support than any other method of challenge resolution, which is mostly skills and some spells, though we have a few class features like the oft-maligned Favored Terrain of the Ranger. 5e doesn't have any frameworks for complex challenge resolution except combat. Something like 4e's skill challenges (a good concept with a somewhat flawed early execution) would give us at least a standardized method for other types of challenges.

 

[Charlaquin]

Of course, that allows the argument that violence shouldn't be shone in something meant for entertainment at all. Even so, I agree with the principle.

Not necessarily, just that it should be done in a responsible context.