Then you took a small part of the conversation and took it out of context. I would encourage you to read the thread as a whole as reiterating the full context in every response in a thread is not something people do. If you dip into only a fraction of a discussion you can mistake the point of the conversation.
I didn't realize I was starting part way. Simple mistake. I don't have enough interest to go back in read the rest. This will be my last post on this tangent within the thread.
When I put challenges in a game they are not meant to be momentary bumps in the road so easily solved they don't require any real thought or chance of failure - just a spell slot expended and the ppresence of the challenge is irrelevant 5 seconds after its appearance. To my mind that does not serve the purpose of an rpg session - which is part of the whole point.
Everyone games differently. I clearly either have a different goal of a "challenge" or I am OK with my group finding easy ways around them. I think of a challenge as anything that takes up some resources (magic, HP, time, etc.). If I achieve that. good. If they players feel awesome because the overcame it easily - great! Everyone's different and that is OK.
It becomes increasingly difficult to make meaningful challenges in the exploration pillar as level increases and magic can solve so very much with the simple expenditure of a spell slot. Using this pillar of the game at high level just to drain resources before the real fun begins I think misses the point entirely. Exploration should be a fun challenge.
I don't disagree, but that is going beyond what I was trying to discuss. I have plenty of ways to have fun exploration in my game (at 15th level now), and I look forward to what new ideas LevelUp will bring to my table. I really only care how the game works at my table, not the spectrum of possible tables.
The statistical probability of the decades and many, many games involved makes it far more likely that my point is sound , regardless of your trying to dismiss the 'sample size' and irrelevant.
As I pointed out I also have 3+ decades of experience. I do believe the sample size of our experience is irrelevant. I don't see the need to justify that at all - it is just plain obvious to me.
It becomes increasingly improbable that I would not have encountered a game without flight as a staple ability in a mid-high level party the more games I have played - that is merely the maths of the thing and isn't really subject to opinion. I didn't take Flight out of those games (nor could I always do so as I didn't run them all), yet there it was, game after game. Are you trying to claim that is merely a coincidence?
No I am not, because I never said anything about flight not being in games. Reread my post if don't believe me. I said not all parties have a character that can fly. Furthermore, as we have already clarified, I didn't know you were talking about high level specifically. I made the assumption you were talking about the more common 10 and below levels.
Just to be clear, I think having the ability to fly is quite common, I never said otherwise. However, the fact that you have never encountered a game that hasn't had flight doesn't amount to much. The fact is I have, on more than one occasion, either played or more commonly DM'd a game where flight didn't come up. Most recently during 4e. It happens - it is a thing.
Of course there is significant support for low magic games, for the very same reason D&D games do not often run to very high level - the fact there is so much magic!
Maybe, or we could just want to emulate the low magic worlds we grew up with: LotC, Conan the Barbarian, etc.
But there is no 'Exploration Manual' like the Monster Manual with a ready set of challenge-rated options.
That would be awesome - you should total make that!
If you really do think that isn't a problem, then perhaps you might ask yourself why A5E is specifically tackling it?
I do think it is a problem for some, it is just not a problem I have had to deal with really. When my group wants exploration to matter, it matters. When we want to handwave it, we do. I'm sure it is easier for us as we like low-magic gritty games. Those are the stories we grew up with after all. For example, there is only one magic user in my current group, everyone else is martial (2 BM fighters, rouge thief, rogue scout (aka ranger) & a wizard)
I beleive it is one of the biggest challanges they have set themselves and I very much hope they ace it!
I hope, for your sake, they do as well. However, I have my doubts it will satisfy you. I mean if you allow high magic to begin with, the only way to counter that is probably going to feel contrived.
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