Let's ban Teleport!

[Munin]

Wow. I just finished the entire thread.
Apart from now having a splitting headache, I'm really impressed by the comments from most of the posters.
Personally, I'm against nixing player abilities, considering the amount of work they put into gaining them. But like another poster said, I'm more worried about what the bad guys will do with some of the spells as written than the players.
Several people have mentioned that 2nd or 1st edition teleport is a much more dangerous cookie than the 3rd. Anyone have the actual stats on that? I'd like to take a look see at it.

 

[Pinotage]

Simple because the BBEG is generally a lot stronger. And the encounters beforehand are not designed to drain resources but to give experience to a party so they can handle the BBEG after gaining a few levels. First strike or not, a lower level buffed up party will not take out a BBEG in my games. Although, in my games, by the time they actually find out who's behind the mess, they're generally ready to face it.

Like I said, maybe it's the mystery/investigation type game I run where the PC's need to figure out who's behind whatever the plot is. But, even if the party knew who the BBEG was at the start of the adventure, they'd never be able to defeat him because he would be stronger. Buffed or not. Surprise or not. Remember that simply because you know you can teleport in an fight him, doesn't imply he has to abide by the rules for a 'challenging' encounter. Most parties would seriously consider whether they were ready or not, and probably not teleport until they were sure they were ready.

Pinotage

Why would he beat you to a pulp? Your party is fully buffed and unwounded. You have all your spells and resources available. You have the advantage of surprise. I fail to see how the BBEG could beat you at full strength, when you can beat him after you've worked your way through several previous encounters, using up hp/spells/magic items, etc.

I find that with teleport, battles become hit-and-run raids. Party A teleports in and nukes the BBEG. If the BBEG survives the initial nuking, he teleports out and recovers. Then the BBEG Scry-Teleports-Nukes the PCs who teleport out. Rinse, repeat, until one side does enough damage early to wipe out the other.

The problem is not just Scry-Teleport, but also the extreme amounts of damage you can dish out in a single round (at higher levels), and the serious advantage that first strike gives you.

Personally, I think Teleport would be fine if Scry didn't allow you to teleport to the location.

 

[Thanee]

Personally, I'm against nixing player abilities, considering the amount of work they put into gaining them.

Well, I do not consider it "nixing" if it is known before a campaign starts and characters are created as part of campaign background/rules, really. Nothing else I am suggesting here, even though some people seem to read a lot more into it for some reason.

Bye
Thanee

 

[StalkingBlue]

Well, I do not consider it "nixing" if it is known before a campaign starts and characters are created as part of campaign background/rules, really. Nothing else I am suggesting here, even though some people seem to read a lot more into it for some reason.

Bye
Thanee

It might be more a matter of not-reading than a matter of reading, actually.

Although I have to admit was partly taken in by the high level of static in the thread as well earlier.

I can very well see style points in favour of certain campaigns - certain campaigns, not all of them!! - that drops all forms of insta-travel as long as some form of fast travel remains available.

For such a campaign I'd tend to leave Wind Walk in and drop Shadow Walk simply because I rather like the flavour of the spell - the visual image it provides helps me tie it into a world. I plain love magic that works with the world and bends it to its purpose, rather than jump to somewhere else and back like Teleport or Shadow Walk. But that's just me.
For a plane-hopping game of course I'd want both Teleport and Shadow Walk in.

 

[Talon5]

That would so not work IMC... Buying magical things is always going to be very difficult, except for the most basic things (like potions and scrolls of level 0, 1 or 2 spells). You need to find someone who sells magic stuff, and you need for what's you're looking to be among what he offers. Also, they'll usually prefer exchanges to trade: give another magical item or approximately the same value rather than a bunch of PP and GP.

That's just IMC, but I'm sure, given the number of complaints about the "magic*mart syndrom", I'm not sure I'm the only one with this kind of interpretations of the rules.

After 9 or 10 lvls worth of adventuring the PCs should know where they can get wands, potions and such. One of my characters is a wiz6/ArcaneOrder4- I think he might know who to contact.

Sure they might not have exactly what he wants, so what- no Wand of CMW, I will take six CLW wands. No, TP w/o error? Okay- two normal TP scrolls. In your campaign magic items might be rare, please don't assume that they are as such in all campaigns.

 

[Arnwyn]

please don't assume that they are as such in all campaigns.

D00d... did you bother reading his post? He made it a point that he was referring to his specific campaign (noting "IMC" multiple times). Don't know where you got the idea that he's assuming it "in all campaigns"... W3rd.

 

[jmucchiello]

Nothing else I am suggesting here, even though some people seem to read a lot more into it for some reason.

Probably because the thread title is "Let's BAN teleport" and not "Let's examine campaign styles that are enhanced when teleport doesn't exist".

 

[Thanee]

That might be.

But isn't banning always/usually done for specific campaigns.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

For such a campaign I'd tend to leave Wind Walk in and drop Shadow Walk simply because I rather like the flavour of the spell - the visual image it provides helps me tie it into a world. I plain love magic that works with the world and bends it to its purpose, rather than jump to somewhere else and back like Teleport or Shadow Walk. But that's just me.
For a plane-hopping game of course I'd want both Teleport and Shadow Walk in.

Hmm... Wind Walk would have to be changed to arcane then, however.

Clearly divine casters should not have the best movement spell available to them.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gez]

Which is why they shouldn't have Etherealness and Ethereal Jaunt four class levels before wizards (and five before sorcerers).