Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
Methinks a lot of us have by now. I like P-Cat's solution though! Bring on the Pogo-stick!!!Gargoyle said:Getting tired of explaining how to challenge teleporters I see.
Let's ban Teleport!
- Thread starter Thanee
- Start date
Thanee
First Post
Creamsteak said:
That's a good question.
Well, I deliberately left this open, since I surely cannot make a finite list.
It includes regional adventures, journeys (i.e. LotR), adventures with a certain atmosphere (i.e. horror style adventures), limited resources campaigns, etc.
Teleport often adds an extreme amount of mobility, which can be problematic in some cases.
Bye
Thanee
Dpulse303
Meat head
Teleportation Signatures
Magic which accesses other planes gives off a strong signature which can be sensed by those with a high enough Spellcraft score. This does not require conscious effort. To detect a signature, make a Spellcraft check with a DC equal to 10 + (10 - spell level). For every 10 miles, increase the DC by 2. Depending on how much of a margin the check is made by, you gain the following information (plus the info in each category lower):
Margin
Info
0-5
No extra info
6-10
Distance
11-15
Direction
16-20
Location
21+
Clairovoyance
Distance is rounded to the nearest 10 miles; Direction is rounded to the nearest compass point (e.g. NE, SW, N); Location reveals the exact location; Clairovoyance grants a momentary flash of clairovoyance.
Still playtesting: subject to alteration.
Theese are the rules that the group im playing in have to use , so it makes you a bit more cautious teleporting in and out of places as you can see though they are still being playtested, im having to improve the spell to a stealth teleport.
Thanee
First Post
@Gargoyle: I don't really want to recreate a LotR feel, I just used it as an example, since it seems to bring the point across (to most people, that is).
Underdark is also a good topic, adding to my above post. An exploration into the Underdark with Teleport available just means, that you never have to rest down there or move there without full buffs running. It simply destroys the whole atmosphere of that place, IMHO.
Bye
Thanee
Underdark is also a good topic, adding to my above post. An exploration into the Underdark with Teleport available just means, that you never have to rest down there or move there without full buffs running. It simply destroys the whole atmosphere of that place, IMHO.
Bye
Thanee
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Perhaps that's because the underdark really is quite unsuitable for high level parties.Thanee said:
This is the thing that's coming through here - when I'm low level, mundane travel is a problem. Finding a room in the dungeon to hide is a problem. The three days walk to the nearest town is a problem.
As I increase in level, I can overcome these problems - meaning I don't have to deal with them time and time again. I can do new things.
I don't want my entire D&D career from 1st level to 20th level filled with "walk to point X, descend into dungeon Y and kill bad guy Z" all the time. I want variation. I want the feel that my character is actually getting more powerful in a tangible way - rather than just killing larger and larger monsters, I now don't have to worry about falling off small cliffs, dying from hunger or exposure and the like.
Will you ban the spell heroes feast just so that poisons and fear effects are a viable high-level threat?
p.s. - I get the impression in Lord of the Rings that invading sauron's realm via teleport or giant eagle would not have been exactly stealthy. He would have known, or at the very least the threat that he would have known would have been great. If your badguys don't scare your heroes, then teleport is a viable solution. If you heroes are afraid of the badguys, then slow and steady tends to be a far better solution.
Thanee said:
Hay Thanee- actually what I meant was- if the GMhas ideas that would be short curcuited by the characters TPing about. Presently the only real TP we have is a 10th lvl wiz that is going to be getting a new fighter with a lot of horse bound feats (I think one of the players and the GM conspired to do that).
Which leads me to a suggestion- Sumiir (the afore mentioned new fighter) has a rather unique horse, and thus he would be unwilling to leave it behind. Some of the fighter types in the group could help your desire to not allow TP as well- "I have three feats and 10 skill points/ranks related to my horse- I ante leaving her!"
What I was offering in my suggestion was more to the- seek other options, or talk to your players, tell them what you want to do in the campaign, what flavor you want to set.
It seems to me that The Company of the Sparrow (Alran's group and Sumiir's future group) has spent a lot of time in the area west of Greyhawk (there are 2 Arcane Order guild houses- Gradsul and Greyhawk). It limits our area of operation because we can't get to the far side of the Flanaess and back before the three month period is up. TP opens that up to us, yet Sumiir's horse limits us again.
In any case- I understand your POV. You have an idea and TP like spells are a problem, so rid yourself of the problem, I mirely wanted to offer suggestions.
Majoru Oakheart
Adventurer
>Just imagine Lord of the Rings with teleport
Actually, if your problem is in creating an atmosphere like LOTR, it isn't with teleport. Magic in LOTR isn't even consistant in and of itself.
The best example of this is to read the LOTR RPG sometime and see the magic system they use in order to simulate magic from the book. It is advised in that book, that although lightning bolt type magic is available and freely choosable as a spell, you should prevent players from casting it very often. It points out that although Gandalf seemed to have the ability to throw a lightning bolt at enemies (and, although I haven't actually read the books themselves, hinted that Gandalf cast a lightning bolt at someone during them) he didn't use them against every enemy he encountered, even really hard ones because that's just the way LOTRs works. It suggests that spells with actual effects that weren't subtle either not be allowed to players or if they used them too often to stop them.
The real problem with trying to simulate LOTR is that it is actually a low magic, low level campaign and world. I know that the LOTR: is it high or low level debate has happened many times, but I can tell you that the game and world you are looking for is one where the average PC is around 2nd or 3rd level and doesn't really gain levels. It gives you that feel without needing to change much at all. All you have to do is assume that even the most powerful people in the world are level 7.
I don't really see teleport as the problem. When you have that high level spells, there are MANY things you can do that destroys the atmosphere you are looking for. I know the one: Scary, mysterious, dangerous, "you could die at any moment", you have to be smart to survive.
All of these can be accomplished. Just make the PCs low level. Go into the Underdark when you are 3rd level? A fireball might kill the party. You could be caught be a random patrol at any time and they COULD kill you. You can't just teleport out or use powerful magic items, as you don't have them.
D&D has its own feeling at each level. At low levels it is dangerous, getting there is half the problem. At mid levels, you can avoid some of the perils of travelling, but you are still faced with choices: use fly to get over the forest or have a fireball to defeat the BBEG when you get to the other side. At high levels, you start getting into more of a "We will do the impossible and take on the Ancient Temple of <insert ancient god's name here>, just the 4 of us. We can teleport out in order to avoid patrols at night and teleport back in afterwards as there is no way we can win in one day."
None of the feelings is WRONG, it's just the way D&D IS. At level 10+ you are getting very close to being more like superheros than gritty heros. Expect players to find away around any type of barrier. The only thing that should worry them are equally powered villians and traps and barriers designed to be at their level of power. Want to play a high level LOTR game? Sauron has to have the power to stop teleportation into mount doom or the players have to be too low powered to have that ability.
Majoru Oakheart
Actually, if your problem is in creating an atmosphere like LOTR, it isn't with teleport. Magic in LOTR isn't even consistant in and of itself.
The best example of this is to read the LOTR RPG sometime and see the magic system they use in order to simulate magic from the book. It is advised in that book, that although lightning bolt type magic is available and freely choosable as a spell, you should prevent players from casting it very often. It points out that although Gandalf seemed to have the ability to throw a lightning bolt at enemies (and, although I haven't actually read the books themselves, hinted that Gandalf cast a lightning bolt at someone during them) he didn't use them against every enemy he encountered, even really hard ones because that's just the way LOTRs works. It suggests that spells with actual effects that weren't subtle either not be allowed to players or if they used them too often to stop them.
The real problem with trying to simulate LOTR is that it is actually a low magic, low level campaign and world. I know that the LOTR: is it high or low level debate has happened many times, but I can tell you that the game and world you are looking for is one where the average PC is around 2nd or 3rd level and doesn't really gain levels. It gives you that feel without needing to change much at all. All you have to do is assume that even the most powerful people in the world are level 7.
I don't really see teleport as the problem. When you have that high level spells, there are MANY things you can do that destroys the atmosphere you are looking for. I know the one: Scary, mysterious, dangerous, "you could die at any moment", you have to be smart to survive.
All of these can be accomplished. Just make the PCs low level. Go into the Underdark when you are 3rd level? A fireball might kill the party. You could be caught be a random patrol at any time and they COULD kill you. You can't just teleport out or use powerful magic items, as you don't have them.
D&D has its own feeling at each level. At low levels it is dangerous, getting there is half the problem. At mid levels, you can avoid some of the perils of travelling, but you are still faced with choices: use fly to get over the forest or have a fireball to defeat the BBEG when you get to the other side. At high levels, you start getting into more of a "We will do the impossible and take on the Ancient Temple of <insert ancient god's name here>, just the 4 of us. We can teleport out in order to avoid patrols at night and teleport back in afterwards as there is no way we can win in one day."
None of the feelings is WRONG, it's just the way D&D IS. At level 10+ you are getting very close to being more like superheros than gritty heros. Expect players to find away around any type of barrier. The only thing that should worry them are equally powered villians and traps and barriers designed to be at their level of power. Want to play a high level LOTR game? Sauron has to have the power to stop teleportation into mount doom or the players have to be too low powered to have that ability.
Majoru Oakheart
Thanee
First Post
@Saeviomagy: I don't consider 9th level to be "high level". I doubt anything lower than that should even set a foot into the Underdark, really. 
And just because Teleport would be gone, it's not like suddenly all adventures would be the same, or every journey would have to be played through in full detail.
I actually don't know of any adventure right off the top of my mind, which wouldn't work anymore with Teleport gone.
Bye
Thanee
And just because Teleport would be gone, it's not like suddenly all adventures would be the same, or every journey would have to be played through in full detail.
I actually don't know of any adventure right off the top of my mind, which wouldn't work anymore with Teleport gone.
Bye
Thanee
Last edited:
Thanee
First Post
Talon5 said:
To be honest, this post is purely hypothetical.
Of course, in some cases Teleport actually opens up possibilities instead of closing them down. That's why I said "for certain campaigns".
And I know what you mean with that horse... since we have a Centaur PC in our party, we have all sorts of additional problems.
BTW, you can teleport horses, too.
Bye
Thanee
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