Let's ban Teleport!

[Thanee]

The fun reply phase is over. Now only serious replies, please.

If you cannot think of one, there is a simple way to handle this problem... don't reply.

Bye
Thanee

 

[JDJarvis]

If Teleport would kill your camapign simply don't let it get used or if that is too heavy handed push it up the spell list to 8th or 9th level.

 

[WizarDru]

I've been struggling with the "problems" of teleportation magic myself lately, for some of the same reasons thatThanee has, but also because teleportation magic just doesn't make sense to me in a typical pseudo-medieval D&D world. While everyone haggles over the mechanics of teleportation spells, I'm curious if anyone elses think that teleportation would simply alter the fundamental way in which a society develops and functions? Trade and exploration, the two foremost drivers of human cultural and technological advancement, would be changed so drastically that I simply cannot work out the society which would result. I find it hard to reconcile instantaneous transport over unlimited distances with some high fantasy world populated by peasants, questing knights and dragons.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

Well, under the core rules, teleporting is pretty rare, unless you're a high-level wizard.

Using the classic western medieval period, here's some examples of the largest cities: London (25,000-40,000), Paris (50,000-80,000), Genoa (75,000-100,000), and Venice (100,000+). Moscow in the 15th century had a population in excess of 200,000! Now, according to the DMG, how many high-level wizards are there going to be, there?

Well, if the city is about 45,000, we can assume about 800 NPCs with PC-class levels. Of those, only 44 have the actual potential to be high enough level to cast Teleport, let alone it's greater cousin. That makes the assumption that all NPCs with class levels in the city are spellcasters, and specifically wizards.

Now, for them to fundementally alter the nature of society, they need to divest themselves of a large amount of personal power, and then donate a good chunk of it to the society at large. So, of the four to six NPCs in our hypothetical city who could cast teleportation circle (i.e. be 17th level or higher) and make it permanent , they'd have to donate 4500 xp (nearly half a level) to make a one-way transporter, and only for medium and some large creatures. To make a second one-way circle for a return trip, you've now doubled the cost....and that circle is always going to that same spot...all it takes to deactivate it is to drop a really big rock on it, making it an extremely expensive commodity that is very easily defeated by much less powerful means.

Teleport is not for unlimited distances, either. Greater Teleport is, of course, but as a 7th level spell, we've dropped to a handful who can cast it. Now, setting aside it's power for a minute, let's address tactical issues: you're a powerful wizard, bent on conquering for some reason. Do you BST those 5th level heroes who are a thorn in your side? Why not, they're only fifth level, right? Good thing your the only bad guy in the world, and no one's looking for you to let your guard down....oh wait, that's not true, is it? And some of your enemies do just what you do, they hire clerics to cast divinations once in a while, don't they? Sure, I can leave my protected fortress to deal with the interlopers...but can I be sure I'll be safe from an assualt by the Great Gorgonzola or the Dread Pirate Roquesfort? While I'm decimating those 5th level weaklings, I could be the target of a dimensional anchor and a few Dispels...and then I'm in a potential world of hurt.

Could Teleport and it's ilk completely transform society? You bet. But under the core rules, it's just not prevalent enough to wage that kind of effect, generally speaking.

 

[Thanee]

Wizards tend to crowd together in mage guilds often, however.

Bye
Thanee

 

[johnsemlak]

Wizards tend to croud together in mage guilds often, however.

Bye
Thanee

Or live a life of isolation in wizard's towers or other remote locations

 

[Plane Sailing]

In my current campaign I'm completely happy with teleportation. I could possibly want to create a campaign in the future where there is no instant transport magic and if so I'd just jot it down in the campaign notes (with the reason) and distribute to players at the start of the campaign. I could even decide to create a campaign setting where instant transport is impeded in some way - either with an expensive material component, an xp cost or perhaps a long casting time (making it a sort of ritual magic rather than melee magic).

So I disagree with the brusque title of the thread ("Let's ban teleport!") since it suggests that there is something generically wrong with teleport, but I agree that there is no reason why a DM might not want to create a setting which does not have teleportation available - or even limits it for a certain period for story reasons in a standard setting, like when the goddess dies in Piratecats game and all interplanar doohickeys get messed up for a while.

Cheers

 

[diaglo]

The fun reply phase is over. Now only serious replies, please.

that's not fair you posted the topic after i left last night.

If you cannot think of one, there is a simple way to handle this problem... don't reply.

i think there have been a lot of good suggestions.

1) limited number of spellcasters high enough to cast the spells
2) physical limits of the spells including distance, barriers like lead, creatures who lurk, knowing the dimensions of places, knowing that the places haven't changed since you last visited, knowing what you had for breakfast... maybe something you did or now carry alters your sight...
3) spell component costs .. gold and xps
4) raising the level of the spells
5) needing a certain cycle of the moons/stars and the right location to cast the spell
6) increasing the casting time
7) limiting knowledge of the spell ... maybe they are their own school... a school that in prohibited.

 

[Hand of Evil]

@Hand of Evil: Like many others, you certainly misunderstand me here. I have no problems to deal with Teleport! I just think it shouldn't exist in some campaigns.
Bye
Thanee

 

[RSKennan]

It seems to me that it's not how common these magics are world-wide, but how common they are in the campaign. If the party includes a sorcerer/wizard, psionicist, or a cleric, then these magics will have a definite impact.

It strikes me how often D&D magic tends to deflate drama rather than bolster it (outside of a strict and narrow path), and that is something my groups shared campaign is working to fix.

My group is about to begin testing Elements of Magic, and I am independently developing another alternate magic stystem. Incedentally, we're also using S.T. Cooley's
"Buy the Numbers" which I predict will allow us to take our minds off of the need to level, and likely keep a campaign's to levels 1-10 or so. I know that when my turn to GM comes around, I intend to go light on xp, since in Buy the Numbers, you can buy new abilities as soon as you get XP.

The last bit is off topic, but I think it's pertinent to consider when fine tuning a campaign for maximum drama.

 

[Thanee]

that's not fair you posted the topic after i left last night.

Hey, I only closed it after you posted.

1) limited number of spellcasters high enough to cast the spells
2) physical limits of the spells including distance, barriers like lead, creatures who lurk, knowing the dimensions of places, knowing that the places haven't changed since you last visited, knowing what you had for breakfast... maybe something you did or now carry alters your sight...
3) spell component costs .. gold and xps
4) raising the level of the spells
5) needing a certain cycle of the moons/stars and the right location to cast the spell
6) increasing the casting time
7) limiting knowledge of the spell ... maybe they are their own school... a school that in prohibited.

Yes, some of that would certainly make it more "plausible" in a "normal" fantasy world. The sometimes problematic instant safe retreat (which can really spoil adventures, which do not have a tight time frame) is not so easy to contain, however, unless everytime there is some weird reason why Teleport suddenly doesn't work anymore.

Bye
Thanee