D&D 5E Lets Rank the 5e Skills!

[Nergal Pendragon]

Diplomacy? Do you mean Persuasion? Why the separation? To separate those characters good with animals from those good with "people". Plus as others have mentioned, if you need to control an animal, it is the skill you want. I, personally, would allow it for other things involving animals as well (e.g., evaluating the value of an animal, training an animal, etc.)

Yes, I mean Persuasion. Going to need to adapt to the new terms...

The issue I find is, I just don't see any justification for the distinction. Many of the same things that can be used on animals are often applied to humans, just in different forms. But, that is just my preferences and perspective.

I am taking off in a few minutes. Can you elaborate?

The idea of randomly failing does not, what I have seen, apply to actual trained performers. Typically, the causes of their failure are not random, but easily predicted. The amateurs tend to be more random, but that is a lack of professional training coming into play. Keep in mind this is only my own perspective.

 

[Mort]

I agree.

Last session there was a rooftop chase (lots of jumping and balancing), session before that lots of wall scaling. Session before that - lots of swimming and balancing on very narrow walkways.

Athletics and acrobatics have so far played major roles! I'd give the skills usefulness a B at least (not 100% necessary but very useful and the players with low checks really feel it).

Another consideration. With persuasion, you usually only need 1 maybe 2 people good at it. Perception helps everyone but as long as someone in the party is good at it you shouldn't miss that much. Athletics/acrobatics is something the individual needs to be good at.

Wow, really? No encounters that ever use climbing, swimming, jumping, crossing slippery surfaces, tightropes, rocking ships, forcing open a stuck door, breaking bonds free, pushing through a small tunnel, hanging onto something while being dragged, tipping over a heavy object, holding something heavy back from rolling, etc..

Those two are some of the most used skills in my games.

 

[Remathilis]

I propose the following replacement skills (choose one at char-gen)

Move: Used to Climb, Jump, Swim, Tumble, Balance, Run, Cartwheel, etc.
Thief: Used to Pick Pockets, Open Locks, Disable Traps, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, and Read Languages
Magicy: Used to Sense Magic, Learn Spells, Identify Items, Determine Monster Special Abilities, and Read Runes
Knowledge: Used to Know stuff about people, places, things and events.
Talk: Used to Persuade, Lie, Sweet Talk, Frighten, Amuse, Anger, or otherwise speek gud.
Camp: Used to find water, track, hunt game, build campfires, soothe angry bears, and otherwise survive outdoors.
Perception: Used See, Hear, Smell, Taste, and Touch, as well as detect bs.
Peasant: Used to cook, clean, sew, grow corn, spin yarn, make tools, or do other mundane boring things.
Use Rope: Used to create a noose to have your PC hang himself when he realized what a useless skill he bought.

There, those skills should be broad enough.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

Use Rope: Used to create a noose to have your PC hang himself when he realized what a useless skill he bought.

I think this one could be folded into Knowledge or Peasant.

 

[Truename]

I'm surprised at the amount of dislike Investigation is getting. One thing I noticed in the Starter Set adventure is that Investigation is often called for when searching a room for treasure and secret doors. Perception is so overpowered that I personally plan to use it primarily for *noticing* things, but Investigation for *finding* something.

As for Animal Handling, in the Starter Set adventure there's a

Spoiler

room with wolves in the first goblin complex. I'd definitely allow Animal Handling as an option for getting past those wolves.

 

[Stalker0]

Wow, really? No encounters that ever use climbing, swimming, jumping, crossing slippery surfaces, tightropes, rocking ships, forcing open a stuck door, breaking bonds free, pushing through a small tunnel, hanging onto something while being dragged, tipping over a heavy object, holding something heavy back from rolling, etc..

Those two are some of the most used skills in my games.

While I agree with your point, actually several notes in here don't use those skills.

Jumping - Set distance no check
Forcing a stuck door - Strength Check
Breaking Bonds - Str check
Holding something back from rolling - Str Check

 

[Ichneumon]

The usefulness of any skill is mitigated by whether the DM provides in-game situations where the skill will help out. Even the mighty Perception becomes a lot less useful if the DM never bothers to let monsters hide from or sneak up on the party, and instead just has them walk up to say hello. It's also likely that upcoming DMG options will help some of the skills shine.

Notes on a few of them.

Animal Handling. Yeah, it very much depends on how much of a role animals play in the DM's campaign. If it's a good idea for the PCs not to kill animals, such as in a sacred wood, then having someone to calm tigers and elephants can help. A guard dog can be persuaded not to bark as the PCs sneak into a camp. If a DM decides that normal horses are scared of combat, as in previous editions, then Animal Handling will be useful for getting them to move towards foes. Undead were also good at scaring animals in earlier editions. Will 5e bring some of that back? If so, Animal Handling will have its place.

Investigation. Not quite properly defined with respect to Perception in the minds of many gamers. A good rule of thumb is that Perception takes its findings at face value, while Investigation can determine that something is not as it seems. It's the designated illusion-buster in the basic rules, and is used in an example of play to check whether gargoyle statues are statues or gargoyle monsters. Also a useful go-to skill when a PC wants to hunt out information in old tomes & libraries.

Performance, Persuasion, Deception, Intimidation
So many ways to convince people to do what you want! For them all to have a place, the DM should create NPCs which are more or less susceptible to specific skills. Persuasion is the best skill in many situations, but not when the PCs must deal with a fanatic. Performance is very useful for distracting a crowd. I expect that the full NPC interaction rules will help give these skills greater definition.

 

[Mistwell]

While I agree with your point, actually several notes in here don't use those skills.

Jumping - Set distance no check

Listed specifically in athletics as, "you attempt to jump an unusually long distance or pull off a stunt midjump"

Forcing a stuck door - Strength Check

Quote from the same skill, "force open a stuck, locked, or barred door".

Breaking Bonds - Str check

Again, it's a quote directly from the skill, "break free of bonds".

Holding something back from rolling - Str Check

And again, it was a quote from the skill, "keep a boulder from rolling".

Of course these are strength checks, as that's what you use if you are not trained in the skill. Like all skills, being trained in them gives you your proficiency bonus to your check. But I was 100% correct in all those things I listed.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Wow, really? No encounters that ever use climbing, swimming, jumping, crossing slippery surfaces, tightropes, rocking ships, forcing open a stuck door, breaking bonds free, pushing through a small tunnel, hanging onto something while being dragged, tipping over a heavy object, holding something heavy back from rolling, etc..

These things are, IMXP, almost always superfluous and secondary. They are the purple prose of encounter design.

The issue is that they're binary. Either you can do it, or you can't. Thus, a challenge like this falls into three camps: Either no one can do it, some people can do it and some people can't, or everyone can do it.

If no one can do it, it's just a wall. The skill roll isn't going to work. The DM can't expect you to do it.

If some people can do it and some people can't, it's not necessary. Since the DM isn't going to split the party, the skill roll is inessential -- there's some other way around the obstacle (even if that other way is "get a rope"). If no one had the skill, the party would still be able to accomplish the goal at hand...or else it's a wall for those people without the skill, and the DM can't expect you to do it.

If everyone can do it, the skill roll is just color. Acrobatics, athletics, picking your nose, underwater basketweaving, whatever, the point is just to do something that will keep the story going, "push A to proceed" style

Last session there was a rooftop chase (lots of jumping and balancing), session before that lots of wall scaling. Session before that - lots of swimming and balancing on very narrow walkways.

Did the characters who lacked these skills just sit around the twiddling their thumbs? Or were they forced to try and fail, thus making it something they could only contribute to negatively? Or did they contribute in some other way, thus meaning that Athletics & Acrobatics are redundant with other things?

 

[CM]

I'm surprised people rate Handling animals so low. Every campaign I've been it has PCs getting and using horses when they can and having mules to carry the treasure. Not knowing how to deal with the animals is not a pretty sight. PCs hate it when the mule carrying thousands in gold goes running off scared into the wilderness.

I can honestly say that in nearly 25 years of D&D I have seen a party buy a mule exactly once. It got carried off in a wyvern attack a few sessions in.