Pathfinder 2E Lets Read and Review Pathfinder 2E

[Zardnaar]

No need to get so bent out of shape about it. There is a reason why 5e also provides with the option for average HP per level. There is a reason why average damage exists as an option for monsters. There is a reason why proficiency bonus exists as a steady bonus for assumed proficiency in your main attack method. Regardless of the encounter subjectivity or randomness, designers still need known assumptions when designing adventures, encounters, monsters, etc.

And yet they don't follow their own rules and the classic adventures made no such assumptions.

I had an inexperienced DM who was struggling with the encounter rules. He don't really know they were on the easy side.

 

[Aldarc]

And yet they don't follow their own rules and the classic adventures made no such assumptions.

As it turns out, game design philosophies in our hobby have changed over time.

 

[Zardnaar]

As it turns out, game design philosophies in our hobby have changed over time.

They have but 5E really only has one great adventure, and a lot of average to good adventures.

It's not hitting the highs of even 3.5. It's not hitting the lies either but a lot of that is because of the design decisions they made. It was glossed over early in 5E but it's getting noticed by a lot more people now. I noticed a lot of the problems in 2014/early 2015.

The casuals are also starting to notice, most campaigns locally seem to finish up around level 8 or lower.

5E starts to get stressed at level 5, level 8 is where combos come online.

 

[Aldarc]

They have but 5E really only has one great adventure, and a lot of average to good adventures.

Which one is that?

I suspect that Lost Mines of Phandelver will be the one most fondly remembered into any given next edition.

It's not hitting the highs of even 3.5. It's not hitting the lies either but a lot of that is because of the design decisions they made. It was glossed over early in 5E but it's getting noticed by a lot more people now. I noticed a lot of the problems in 2014/early 2015.

The casuals are also starting to notice, most campaigns locally seem to finish up around level 8 or lower.

5E starts to get stressed at level 5, level 8 is where combos come online.

We likely agree on these points, as my group and I found this phenomenon to be a glaring weak point of 5e as well. It also doesn't help that the game, or at least many adventures, is designed to speed level characters, which means that they reach this rough patch even sooner.

I also don't think that it's exactly a coincidence that a lot of d20 fantasy heartbreakers (e.g., 13th Age, Black Hack, Shadow of the Demon Lord) stop at level 10.

 

[Mycroft]

They have but 5E really only has one great adventure, and a lot of average to good adventures.

It's not hitting the highs of even 3.5. It's not hitting the lies either but a lot of that is because of the design decisions they made. It was glossed over early in 5E but it's getting noticed by a lot more people now. I noticed a lot of the problems in 2014/early 2015.

The casuals are also starting to notice, most campaigns locally seem to finish up around level 8 or lower.

5E starts to get stressed at level 5, level 8 is where combos come online.

While I dig the proficiency bonus of 5th Ed, it harkens back to the homogeneous +1/2 level to all, that 4th Ed has; I would prefer a bit more gradation (but not as much as 3rd Ed).

 

[Zardnaar]

Which one is that?

I suspect that Lost Mines of Phandelver will be the one most fondly remembered into any given next edition.

We likely agree on these points, as my group and I found this phenomenon to be a glaring weak point of 5e as well. It also doesn't help that the game, or at least many adventures, is designed to speed level characters, which means that they reach this rough patch even sooner.

I also don't think that it's exactly a coincidence that a lot of d20 fantasy heartbreakers (e.g., 13th Age, Black Hack, Shadow of the Demon Lord) stop at level 10.

It's Lost Mines.

I own most of the adventures they have put out missing 4. Most of then are good but they lack great ones.

 

[MockingBird]

I own most of the adventures they have put out missing 4. Most of then are good but they lack great ones.

That's subjective. They have several great adventures. Tomb of Annihilation, Curse of Strahd, and Out of the Abyss are a few pegs above "good".

 

[Zardnaar]

That's subjective. They have several great adventures. Tomb of Annihilation, Curse of Strahd, and Out of the Abyss are a few pegs above "good".

Yeah they are some if the best, but they're derivative as well. In the future I think the opinion will be good adventures based on/tribute to better Adventures.

LMoP us a modern classic IMHO and will be this generations Keep on the Borderlands.

5E adventures tend to be consistently good with only one bad one but they're really only great compared to the 4E ones, they're not hitting the peaks of 3.5/Paizo or even 2E.

Some are outright reprint complilations as well. There's no Savage Tide, Lich Queens Beloved, Mere of Dead Men, Age of Worms, Night Below classic and now 5E has been going for as long as 3.5.

There's a lot to be said for consistency though the "meh" 5E adventures if they were movies would be a 7.5/10. With a couple of exception s.

 

[MockingBird]

Yeah they are some if the best, but they're derivative as well. In the future I think the opinion will be good adventures based on/tribute to better Adventures.

LMoP us a modern classic IMHO and will be this generations Keep on the Borderlands.

5E adventures tend to be consistently good with only one bad one but they're really only great compared to the 4E ones, they're not hitting the peaks of 3.5/Paizo or even 2E.

Some are outright reprint complilations as well. There's no Savage Tide, Lich Queens Beloved, Mere of Dead Men, Age of Worms, Night Below classic and now 5E has been going for as long as 3.5.

There's a lot to be said for consistency though the "meh" 5E adventures if they were movies would be a 7.5/10. With a couple of exception s.

I can't disagree with you. Everything you said is fairly spot on. I missed the 3.0/3.5 era so I cant really cant say anything about those adventures. I agree, 4e adventures (or the ones I had experience with) seemed very encounter focused, like too much. 1e/2e had a lot of great ones and I'm happy WotC is rereleasing them. I do wish WotC would put out a few more shorter adventures, I'd even be happy with the format they used for the "remasters".

 

[Nebulous]

Which one is that?

I suspect that Lost Mines of Phandelver will be the one most fondly remembered into any given next edition.

We likely agree on these points, as my group and I found this phenomenon to be a glaring weak point of 5e as well. It also doesn't help that the game, or at least many adventures, is designed to speed level characters, which means that they reach this rough patch even sooner.

I also don't think that it's exactly a coincidence that a lot of d20 fantasy heartbreakers (e.g., 13th Age, Black Hack, Shadow of the Demon Lord) stop at level 10.

Lost Mine of Phandelver is excellent, I'm running it a second time right now for a newbie group and liking it even more the second go around. But I also liked Princes of the Apocalypse very much, and I'm 2/3 through Tomb and think that's even better than Princes.

BUT...I can't stand running D&D past 10th level. I can recall saying to myself multiple times toward the end of Princes, PCs were 11th or 12 - God, I hate this game. 8th or 9th is typically where I like to end it. I don't use XP either, thank goodness, so I deliberately slow the roll with PC progression. I will keep them at 1st to 8th for a long ass time and enjoy the game, because if it goes on far past that then I quit having fun. PCs are nearly impossible to threaten, they can escape from any situation, and combat encounters take too much work to create a consistent challenge. At low level it is easy to throw an encounter together and it works correctly.