D&D 2E Let's Read the AD&D 2nd Edition PHB+DMG!

[PHATsakk43]

There were differences in the 89 printings as well.

At some point, “any” was changed to “H, H-E, E”

There were close to 10 printings with various errata updates prior to 1995 reprint.

EDIT: there’s at least 11 printings of the 89. The 1st one has differences. 2nd+ are all including the errata. Similarly, there are major errata updates with the 1995 version between 1st and subsequent printings.

Although, honestly, gnomish diviners are not in anyway game breaking.

EDIT: I have no idea what this is, ignore it.

 

[ScottDeWar_jr]

You weren't posting while drunk (pwd) or posting under the influence (pui) were you?

 

[PHATsakk43]

You weren't posting while drunk (pwd) or posting under the influence (pui) were you?

I’d like to say no, but I’m not sure.

I did manage to quote myself and nothing else.

 

[Iosue]

Let's now look at the Priest class group, and the "generalist" priest, the Cleric.

Due to 2nd Edition's expansion of clerics to "specific mythoi", the first part of the Priest description explains that they are believers and advocates of a god from a particular mythos, and who intercedes and acts on behalf of others, and seeks to use powers to advance the beliefs of his mythos. Like in 1st Edition, they get d8 Hit Dice, and can use spells as well as weapons.

The book provides 16 spheres of influence, which as far as I can tell, are completely new to 2nd Edition: All, Animal, Astral, Charm, Combat, Creation, Divination, Elemental, Guardian, Healing, Necromantic, Plant, Protection, Summoning, Sun, and Weather. Spheres of influence are distinct from schools of magic, which all Priest spells also belong to, which I imagine is for specialist wizards' bonus to saving throws from spells in their own school.

Table 23 shows the Priest Experience Levels, with columns for the Cleric and Druid. The XP requirements are unchanged from 1st Edition. It's immediately followed by Table 24: Priest Spell Progression. This is identical to the 1st Edition cleric spell table, though one change is that druids now use this table rather than their own.

Looking specifically at the cleric class, this is noted as the most common type of priest. A slight difference from 1st Edition is that clerics can now be of any alignment, whereas in 1st Edition a true Neutral cleric had to be a druid. The blue box outlining the conception of the cleric class draws comparisons with the religious knights of the Middle Ages: the Teutonic Knights, the Knights Templar, and the Hospitalers. The Song of Roland's Archbishop Turpin is specifically name-checked.

Like in 1st Edition, clerics can wear any armor and use a shield, but are limited to blunt, bludgeoning weapons, because they are "reluctant to shed blood or spread violence." Certainly, nothing says "reluctance to shed blood" like a mace to the face.

As far as spells go, clerics can use any sphere except for plant, animal, weather, and elemental spheres. These, of course, are where all the spells on the 1st Edition druid spell list went. 2nd Edition explicitly notes that clerics receive their spells as insight directly from their deity as a sign of and reward for their faith, and that they can be taken away if the cleric abuses their power. This is not in the 1st Edition Player's Handbook, but I gotta think that something like that is in the 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide.

As in 1st Edition, at 8th Level, clerics get 20-200 followers, provided they have built a place of worship to their deity. In 2nd Edition, these are explicitly noted to be 0th-level soldiers. 1st Edition is agnostic to the make-up of the followers, saying only that some will be men-at-arms. 1st Edition is also more detailed on the kind of place of worship to be built: a building of 2,000 square feet in floor area with an altar, shrine, chapel, etc. 2nd Edition only says that the place of worship must be "of significant size."

At 9th Level, clerics can establish a religious stronghold, such as a fortified abbey or secluded convent. The construction cost for this is half the normal price, due to official sanction of the stronghold and donated labor by the faithful. This also follows 1st Edition, though 1st Edition again specifies that it must contain a large temple, cathedral, or church of not less than 2,500 square feet on the ground floor. Also, in 1st Edition, the cleric can clear the surrounding area to get 9 sp/inhabitant every month from trade, taxation, and tithes. The cleric does not get this income in 2nd Edition.

Both the 8th Level place of worship and the 9th Level stronghold can be established before reaching those levels, but the faithful followers do not come until 8th Level is reached, and the reduced cost to build the stronghold is available only after reaching 9th Level.

One thing I thought interesting was how each book treated Turning undead. In 1st Edition, the PHB helpfully gives a list of the undead that can be turned. But the actual table for determining if the undead are turned is in the DMG. 2nd Edition doesn't put this table in the class description (unlike every edition of TSR-era D&D), but it is in the PHB, in the Combat chapter. So let us make a small digression.

In 1st Edition, every level from 1st to 8th has its own column. Then there is one column is Levels 9-13, and then a final column for Levels 14+. 8th Level is the first level that covers every category, from Skeleton (weakest) to Special (strongest). In 2nd Edition, the higher levels are broken up: Level nine gets its own column (equal to Level 8 in 1st Edition), then there's a column for Levels 10-11, another for Levels 12-13, and then a final column for Levels 14+, which is the same as in 1st Edition.

2nd Edition's changes clean up some odd jumps in the 1st Edition table. Generally, the progression of the DC, if you will, for Turn Undead goes 20, 19, 16, 13, 10, 7, 4 (this is the number the cleric must roll on a d20 to turn the undead). This is generally followed in 1st Edition, except for big jumps at Level 4, Level 8, and Level 14.

For example, this is the table to turn a Skeleton up to Level 4:

Undead	Cleric Level 1	Cleric Level 2	Cleric Level 3	Cleric Level 4
Skeleton	10	7	4	T (automatic Turn)

We'd expect a similar progression for Zombies, but instead it skips a stage at level 4, Turning Zombies automatically instead of requiring a roll of 4 or better:

Undead	Cleric Level 1	Cleric Level 2	Cleric Level 3	Cleric Level 4
Zombie	13	10	7	T

Likewise, the DC for Turning a Ghoul at Level 4 jumps from 10 to 4, instead of the expected 7. 2nd Edition smooths all this out, following the expected progression for all levels. This is a little bit of a nerf to clerics from levels 4-9. On the other hand, the jump from Level 13 to 14 is smoothed out with the additional columns for Levels 10-11 and 12-13.

Here's 1st Edition for Liches and Special. Note that this is the point when both appear on the table:

Undead	Cleric Level 8	Cleric Levels 9-13	Cleric Levels 14+
Lich	19	16	10
Special	20	19	13

Here it is for 2nd Edition:

Undead	Cleric Level 8	Cleric Level 9	Levels 10-11	Levels 12-13	Cleric Levels 14+
Lich	20	19	16	13	10
Special	--	20	19	16	13

Is one better than the other? I suppose it could be argued that the jump at Levels 4, 8, and 14 make 1st Edition clerics better prepared for the higher level undead they will see. OTOH, I lean toward the 2nd Edition table, both for its easy-to-follow uniformity, but also because four levels of no improvement is rough, especially when it takes 225,000 XP to advance each of those levels.

Some final notes on Turning. In 1st Edition, the Special row is for low-level demons and devils. Basically, any creature from the lower planes with AC worse than -5, less than 11 HD, or less than 66% magic resistance. However! When 2nd Edition was first published, there were no longer any demons and devils! The newly re-christened baatezu and tanar'ri would not appear until Planescape in 1994. So in 2nd Edition, Special became "unique undead, free-willed undead of the Negative Material Plane, certain Greater and Lesser Powers, and those undead that dwell in the outer planes."

Next up, Priests of Specific Mythoi.

 

[Voadam]

1e Dragonlance Adventures had spheres for their holy order of stars priests (individual Dagonlance god followers) but it was only like three spheres per god or so. Much weaker than 1e or 2e clerics and even weaker than 2e complete priest specialty priests per my memory. Many could not heal at all.

Not sure without looking it up if they were the same sphere breakdowns as 2e.

 

[Staffan]

2nd Edition explicitly notes that clerics receive their spells as insight directly from their deity as a sign of and reward for their faith, and that they can be taken away if the cleric abuses their power. This is not in the 1st Edition Player's Handbook, but I gotta think that something like that is in the 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide.

I'm not sure where in 1e it is, but there was a concept that clerics got level 1 and 2 spells from their own faith, levels 3 through 5 from various intermediaries, and levels 6 and 7 directly from The Boss (with only greater gods being able to grant level 7 spells). This is also why demigods were limited to granting level 5 spells: they are the ones who get subcontracted to handle mid-level spell granting for the real gods.

Similar concepts showed up in 2e, but I don't know how specific it was. It think it was explicit in Legends & Lore (the 2e version of Deities & Demigods), and Spelljammer alluded to it by limiting priest spells to 1st and 2nd level in the Phlogiston as well as in crystal spheres where your own god wasn't worshiped (though there were ways around it, like getting in touch with a similar one, or by worshiping Celestian or Ptah who were widely-enough worshiped in space that they could grant spells everywhere).

This also reminds me of a difference between 1e and 2e in deific power levels. 1e only had demigods, lesser gods, and greater gods, maxing out at spell level 5, 6, and 7 respectively. Each pantheon had quite a few greater gods – I don't have the book to check, but I think e.g. the Greek pantheon had both Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Hera, Apollo, Demeter, and probably one or two more as Greater gods. In 2e, they decided that the term "greater god" should be limited to the actual pantheon heads – Zeus, in this case. But it's kind of boring if only the chief god's priests get to cast level 7 spells, so they made a new level: Intermediate god, who still got to grant spells all the way to level 7, and demoted almost all the formerly greater gods to Intermediate.

Then, along came Forgotten Realms. Much like the real-world pantheons, the 1e version had quite a few greater gods around. But other than Ao (who does not respond to prayer or worship and is therefore irrelevant), there was no real chief of the FR pantheon – no-one to point to and say "this guy stays, the rest gets to drop a level". So instead of greater gods being demoted to intermediate, FR had lesser gods promoted to intermediate, and quite a few of the former demigods promoted to lesser gods.

 

[Mannahnin]

I'm not sure where in 1e it is, but there was a concept that clerics got level 1 and 2 spells from their own faith, levels 3 through 5 from various intermediaries, and levels 6 and 7 directly from The Boss (with only greater gods being able to grant level 7 spells). This is also why demigods were limited to granting level 5 spells: they are the ones who get subcontracted to handle mid-level spell granting for the real gods.

It's in the DMG. P38-39, Day to Day Acquisition of Cleric Spells.

It is well known to all experienced players that clerics, unlike magic-users, have their spells bestowed upon them by their respective deities. By meditation and prayer the clerics receive the specially empowered words which form the various spells possible for them - although as with the spells of magic-users, the utterance of any given set of key sounds not only causes the desired spell to take effect, but it likewise wipes the memory of the sounds from the mind of the utterer, as each set of sounds is an energy trigger (see SPELL CASTING). Of utmost importance, then, is the relationship between cleric and deity.

Each cleric must have his or her own deity, so when a new player opts to become a cleric (including a druid), you must inform them as to which deities exist in your campaign milieu and allow the individual to select which one of them he or she will serve. This will not necessarily establish the alignment of the cleric, so at the same time the cleric player character should also state his or her ethos (not necessarily to the other players). It is then assumed that prior to becoming a first level cleric, the player character received a course of instruction, served a novitiate, and has thoroughly read and committed to memory the teachings of and prayers to his or her chosen deity, so that the character is dedicated to this deity and is able to perform as a cleric thereof. It is this background which enables the cleric character to use first level spells,

Furthermore, continued service and activity on behalf of the player character's deity empower him or her to use second level spells as well, but thereafter another agency must be called upon.

Cleric spells of third, fourth, and fifth level are obtained through the aid of supernatural servants of the cleric's deity. That is, through meditation and prayer, the cleric's needs are understood and the proper spells are given to him or her by the minions of the deity.

Cleric spells of sixth and seventh level are granted by direct communication from the deity itself. There is no intermediary in this case, and the cleric has a direct channel to the deity, from whom he or she receives the special power to cast the given spells of these levels.

Lesser clerics, then, draw only upon their education, training, and experience to gain spells, just as higher clerics do when they renew their first and second level spells. In order to gain third, fourth, and fifth level spells, however, higher clerics must reach intermediaries of their respective deities in order to have these powers bestowed upon them from the plane of their deity. When clerics become very great, they must petition their deity personally in order to receive the powerful words which enable the casting of sixth and seventh level cleric spells. It is obvious,therefore, that clerics wishing to use third or higher level spells must be in good standing.

If they have not been faithful to their teachings, followed the aims of their deity, contributed freely to the cause and otherwise acted according to the tenets of their faith, it becomes unlikely that they will receive intermediary aid unless they make proper atonement and sacrifice. There can be no question that such clerics must be absolutely exemplary in their activities, expressions, and attitudes if they dare to contact their deity directly!

In the former case, where the unfaithful cleric desires third through fifth level spells, the minions (angels, demi-gods, or whatever) will be likely to require the cleric to spend 2-8 days in prayer, fasting, and contemplation of his or her transgressions, making whatever sacrifices and atonement are necessary thereafter, before freely granting those powers once again. Sacrifice and atonement will probably be left to the discretion of the cleric, and it is possible that the minions of the deity will empower him or her with spells to complete these steps, but the cleric had better do the correct thing, or face the consequences.

In the latter case, where the unfaithful cleric desires spells above the fifth level, the deity is certainly going to be highly displeased and absolute. The deity (you, the DM) will point out all of the transgressions, state a course of action which must be followed to regain good graces grant the spells which the deity deems are necessary to complete the course (but never in excess of those which the cleric could normally use!), and pronounce anathema upon the cleric until satisfactory redemption has been made - i.e., the cleric can not again call upon any help from his or her deity, or its minions, until he or she has regained favor through a course prescribed by the deity.

 

[PHATsakk43]

The turning stuff was part of the errata that didn’t get published ever really outside of Dragon Magazine.

Like, evil priests were able to turn paladins for instance.

One of the later (very late—1999) WotC 2E products, Guide to Hell finally updates the turning table to include fiends (the grab-all term used to refer to demons, devils, daemons, and demodands in 2E).

 

[rabindranath72]

EDIT: I have no idea what this is, ignore it.

This makes perfect sense.

Some final notes on Turning. In 1st Edition, the Special row is for low-level demons and devils. Basically, any creature from the lower planes with AC worse than -5, less than 11 HD, or less than 66% magic resistance. However! When 2nd Edition was first published, there were no longer any demons and devils! The newly re-christened baatezu and tanar'ri would not appear until Planescape in 1994. So in 2nd Edition, Special became "unique undead, free-willed undead of the Negative Material Plane, certain Greater and Lesser Powers, and those undead that dwell in the outer planes."

Next up, Priests of Specific Mythoi.

Note the Outer Planes MC appendix was sold in 1991, so it predates Planescape.

 

[Ath'kethin]

I thought the only differences were art and formatting. What content changes did they make?

A change that I remember noticing is in the Dual Class characters section. The '89 version of my PHB says

"There is no limit to the number of classes a character can acquire, as long as he has the ability scores and wants to make the change." It does note, however, that some classes have alignment restrictions that make them incompatible.

On the other hand, my '95 PHB says

"A character can acquire up to four classes, one from each group, as long as he has the ability scores and wants to make the change." with the same note about alignment restrictions.

There were other changes too, many more subtle, but I always remember that one.