D&D 2E Let's Read the AD&D 2nd Edition PHB+DMG!

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
All Wizards, mage or specialist, use the same XP chart, and all use 4-sided Hit Dice. The XP progression is almost exactly the same as 1st Edition, except for Level 5. In 1st Ed, 22,501 XP were needed to reach Level 5, but 2nd Ed. smooths this down to an even 20,000. All Wizards also use the same Wizard Spell Progression table, which is unchanged from 1st Ed., aside from only going to 20th level, instead of 1st Edition's 29th level.
Were you planning to talk more about specialist wizards in your next post?

The ability to get an extra spell every single spell level, and a guaranteed new spell in your spellbook every time you gain a new spell level, was so good that I rarely saw anyone play a regular mage. Despite the cost of losing access to two schools of magic (or just Conjuration/Summoning, if you're a Diviner).

I'm flicking through the DMG and have been looking at critical hits, a rule which I think we must have incorporated immediately upon finding out about it. There's been some confusion over the years since I'm sure people have mentioned that AD&D didn't have critical hits but I could always remember using them. The interesting thing though, is that they had a different critical hit as an option.

When rolling a natural 20, you instead get to make a second attack against the same target. If that attack is a natural 20, you can make a 3rd attack (unlikely but could happen). Did anyone use this critical hit rule instead? I don't recall reading it, but then it's been ages since I've really looked through the 2e DMG.
No, I didn't see anyone use that variant, although double damage was common.

People always talk about 1E AD&D as having no critical hits, as those rules explicitly exclude them and Gary famously inveighs against them in the 1E DMG. 2E includes them as an optional rule on DMG p61, because they were an incredibly popular house rule. And probably because Gary was gone, so his opinion no longer mattered.

It’s been in there since the beginning, but similarly I’ve never seen it used.
What do you mean by "the beginning"? It's been there since 2E. None of the five versions of D&D and AD&D prior to 1989 include critical hit rules.

We tried out the C&T system once and it was just brutal. PCs take way more shots than NPCs and you end up pretty mangled after a few adventures. I’ve heard that it was similar to WFRP in that sense.
Which is one of the reasons Gary gave in 1979 for there being no critical hit rules in AD&D:

As has been detailed, hit points are not actually a measure of physical damage, by and large, as far as characters (and some other creatures as well) are concerned. Therefore, the location of hits and the type of damage caused are not germane to them. While this is not true with respect to most monsters, it is neither necessary nor particularly useful. Lest some purist immediately object, consider the many charts and tables necessary to handle this sort of detail, and then think about how area effect spells would work. In like manner, consider all of the nasty things which face adventurers as the rules stand. Are crippling disabilities and yet more ways to meet instant death desirable in an open-ended, episodic game where participants seek to identify with lovingly detailed and developed player-character personae? Not likely! Certain death is as undesirable as a give-away campaign. Combat is a common pursuit in the vast majority of adventures, and the participants in the campaign deserve a chance to exercise intelligent choice during such confrontations. As hitpoints dwindle they can opt to break off the encounter and attempt to flee. With complex combat systems which stress so-called realism and feature hit location, special damage, and so on, either this option is severely limited or the rules are highly slanted towards favoring the player characters at the expense of their opponents. (Such rules as double damage and critical hits must cut both ways ~ in which case the life expectancy of player characters will be shortened considerably - or the monsters are being grossly misrepresented and unfairly treated by the system. I am certain you can think of many other such rules.)
(Bold emphasis added by me)
 

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PHATsakk43

Last Authlim of the True Lord of Tyranny
What do you mean by "the beginning"? It's been there since 2E. None of the five versions of D&D and AD&D prior to 1989 include critical hit
The beginning of 2E. It seems that many only have access to the 1995 reprinted version of the core books as this was what was released with Core Rules and is currently in pdf from DrivethruRPG.

The original 1989 books were never digitized (to my knowledge) and have become harder to find. They also had notoriously bad bindings and fell apart.

There seems to be some confusion about how much was changed between 1989 and 1995, which was actually very little except errata, art, and layout.
 
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PHATsakk43

Last Authlim of the True Lord of Tyranny
According to the core rules 2.0 expansion (that old PC generator software) the kits are still available to both paladins and rangers.
I’d be wary of using that as a reference.

The dwarf-only sharpshooter kit shows up for any warrior as well. I’m sure there are others as there are lots of other weird things like half-elven multiclass bards as well, which wasn’t ever mentioned.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
I’m sure there are others as there are lots of other weird things like half-elven multiclass bards as well, which wasn’t ever mentioned.
The way they handled multiclassed Bards was wild, basing it on which Bard Kit you chose. Which led to some very strange combinations like Elven Thief/Gypsy (I know, I know)..literally a Rogue/Rogue multiclass!
 


Iosue

Legend
Sorry for the delay! A bit of work, a bit of other activities, and an unplanned binge of Haikyuu! got in the way of this, our look at the Specialist Wizards and the Illusionist.

I will cover both of these at the same time, since the illusionist is a pretty straightforward implementation of the rules for specialist wizards.

The book first explains the Schools of Magic, noting that these are not organized places to go to study, but rather magical disciplines, each of which has their own special methods practices depending on the type of magical energy they utilize. The nine schools are Abjuration, Alteration, Conjuration/Summoning, Enchantment/Charm, Greater Divination, Illusion, Invocation/Evocation, Necromancy, and Lesser Divination. Note that these schools are actually slightly different in the spell descriptions: "Invocation/Evocation" is uniformly referred to as "Evocation", while "Illusion" is uniformly referred to as "lllusion/Phantasm." Unfortunately, they do not provide any particular explanation of what the individual schools do, which is obvious for some schools from their names, but not necessarily all. It is only by looking at the spells that one sees that Abjuration deals with protection, banishing, and the dispelling or canceling of magic. The differences between Evocation and Conjuration seems to be that Evocation deals with short term magical effects, while Conjuration deals with magic that sustains for longer periods.

Lesser Divination is minor school that all wizards have access to. The other eight make up the "greater schools," which are opposed to each other in various degrees. Illusion opposes Necromancy, Alteration opposes Abjuration, Greater Divination opposes Conjuration/Summoning, and Invocation/Evocation opposes Enchantment Charm. This is important because a specialist cannot cast spells in the school opposing the one they specialize in, and sometimes one or both of the schools next to the the opposition school.

For no good reason other than that specialty wizards are a "non-standard" class, there is an additional ability minimum requirement to specialize in each of the schools. Furthermore, there are race restrictions as well, though no particular reason is giving other than a vague hand-wave towards "natural tendency or quirk of fate."

This is how it breaks down:
SpecialistSchoolRaceMin. Ability ScoreOpposition School(s)
AbjurerAbjurationHumanWIS 15Alteration & Illusion
ConjurerConj./SummoningHuman, Half-elfCON 15Gr. Divin. & Illusion
DivinerGreater DivinationAnyWIS 16Conj./Summoning
EnchanterEnchantment/CharmHuman, Half-elf, ElfCHA 16Evoc. & Necromancy
IllusionistIllusionHuman, GnomeDEX 16Necro., Evoc., Illusion
InvokerInvocation/EvocationHumanCON 16Ench./Charm & Conj.
NecromancerNecromancyHumanWIS 16Illusion & Ench./Charm
TransmuterAlterationHuman, Half-elfDEX 15Abjuration & Necro.

Specialty wizards with an INT of 16 or more get the +10% bonus to XP, since their other prime requisite is already fulfilled by the minimum requirement to be that specialty.

So what does a specialty wizard gain for fulfilling their race and ability requirements, and for being unable to cast spells of their opposition schools?
  • An additional spell slot per spell level in their specialty. So a 1st level specialty wizard gets two first level spell slots, instead of just one, but one of them must be in their specialty.
  • A +1 bonus to saves against spells in their specialty, while other characters get a -1 penalty to saving throws against spells in their specialty. These cancel out in the case of two wizards of the same specialty casting spells on each other.
  • A +15% bonus to their chance of learning spells in their specialty, and a -15% penalty to their chance of learning spells outside of their specialty.
  • An additional spell in their specialty is added to their spell book whenever they reach a new spell level, with no need to find it or roll for chance of learning.
  • When researching new spells in their specialty, the spells is counted as one level lower for purposes of determining difficulty.
The 2nd Edition illusionist is then merely an example of the above put into effect. How does it compare to the 1st Edition Illusionist, which was its own dedicated class?

1st Ed. illusionists did not get any of the above bonuses, rather they got an expanded list of magic items that they could use, and their own dedicated spell progression table and spell list. The Illusionist spell levels only went to Level 7, and as character levels get higher, illusionists have fewer spells than their magic-user counterparts. So on the whole, the 2nd Edition illusionist loses some of their uniqueness in return for a class-wide buff. They get more spells, more spells slots, access to 8th and 9th level spells, and still have access to almost all the spells that were on the 1st Ed. Illusionist spell list.

This set-up of being either a generalist with access to all spell schools or a specialist that forewent some schools in return for bonuses in their specialty school, would continue in both 3rd Edition and 3.5. The idea of schools as a whole would be initially abandoned in 4th Edition, until brought back in a limited form with the Essentials line's Mage subclass. Here, the schools were presented as simply providing bonuses to particular spell powers, rather than something that hard restricted access to other schools of magic. Only four of the original schools were included, joined by Nethermancy and Pyomancy. In 5th Edition, the original 8 greater schools of magic would make a comeback, and the generalist wizard was abandoned in favor of every wizard specializing in a school as their subclass.

Earlier in the thread, @Mannahnin mentioned seeing specialists being preferred to generalist mages. This makes sense to me, as it seems to me that the specialist wizard was a nice way to "raise the floor" of the wizard class, so to speak, without excessively raising the ceiling. It makes sense to see it tweaked a bit and used in 5th Edition.

Next up, we look at the Priest group and the Cleric.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
I know it's not in the PHB, but I did enjoy the fact that a few other "specialist" mages popped up from time to time, and while they had differences, you could trace their lineage from this section of the rules easily.

I'm of course talking about the Wild Mage, Elementalist, and Wu Jen from the Tome of Magic, and the Dualist Mages from Cormanthor: Empire of the Elves (mages that specialize in two opposed schools of magic! I got to play one in a game, an Evoker/Enchanter, though I would have loved to try out some of the others, because the strange combination of abilities could really make for challenging and interesting play experiences).
 

Bedrockgames

I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
Earlier in the thread, @Mannahnin mentioned seeing specialists being preferred to generalist mages. This makes sense to me, as it seems to me that the specialist wizard was a nice way to "raise the floor" of the wizard class, so to speak, without excessively raising the ceiling. It makes sense to see it tweaked a bit and used in 5th Edition.

This was about 50/50 in my campaigns
 

PHATsakk43

Last Authlim of the True Lord of Tyranny
I see you have an older version of the PHB which gave access to Divination to more than was supposed to be available.

Although, I don’t think I’ve ever seen “any” in the race column before. It usually has Humans & Gnomes.

This was corrected later, but honestly, Gnomish diviners didn’t seem that odd thematically either. Gnomes did get access to Artificers school in PO:S&M.

I know it's not in the PHB, but I did enjoy the fact that a few other "specialist" mages popped up from time to time, and while they had differences, you could trace their lineage from this section of the rules easily.

I'm of course talking about the Wild Mage, Elementalist, and Wu Jen from the Tome of Magic, and the Dualist Mages from Cormanthor: Empire of the Elves (mages that specialize in two opposed schools of magic! I got to play one in a game, an Evoker/Enchanter, though I would have loved to try out some of the others, because the strange combination of abilities could really make for challenging and interesting play experiences).

Wu Jen were a kit in the wizards handbook and never really a unique class in 2E. Wild magic and elemental magic were in the ToM as distinct specialist classes.

PO:S&M expanded this to create different types of spell identification, Schools of Philosophy—same as the PHB; Schools of Effect—elementalist from ToM, with dimensionalist, force mage, mentalist, and shadow mage; and Schools of Thaumaturgy—wild mage from ToM, alchemist, artificer, geometer, and song mage.

The other biggest addition to the wizard group was from Al Qadim and Dark Sun, the former of which added the sorcerer (basically a modification of the elemental wizard who has access to two elements but without the benefit of specialization), elementalist (basically straight from the ToM), and the sha’ir who accessed magic via genies. Dark Sun had the preservers and defilers which really felt like it was something that came from the zeitgeist of the late 80s/early 90s ecological pop science, which unlike today was much more focused on pollution and resource conservation rather than greenhouse gases & climate change. Oddly, even though that wasn’t a huge part of the discussion at the time, we see magic-caused desertification showing up in a few different places, Dark Sun being the most prominent, but also in Forgotten Realms in both Anauroch and Raurin deserts.

All in all, the 2E approach to magic was extremely extensible without having to really add any extra complexity.
 

Bedrockgames

I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
I see you have an older version of the PHB which gave access to Divination to more than was supposed to be available.

This is very important I suppose. There are some big differences between the PHB printed in 89 and the black PHB printed in the mid-90s (I always preferred the earlier one but it has been harder to come by these days)
 

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