Let's talk about "plot", "story", and "play to find out."

[Maxperson]

Well, I spent over a year running and playing 4e, and at the end of it I enjoyed it less, as the things I didn't care for about it bothered me more and more. My experience with PBtA games didn't lead to liking how they work either (although I can enjoy short games of Monster of the Week). And my experience with PF2 didn't work for me. So it can go the other way just as legitimately IMO. So just deciding to like something you don't seems naive to me.

You can't spend a year or more running and playing a game you are excluded from.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You can't spend a year or more running and playing a game you are excluded from.

Sure you can. I couldn't play D&D the way I wanted because of 4e's mechanics and playstyle design, so I was excluded from the kind of D&D play I previously wasn't excluded from (because the game used to better support the type of play I preferred, and then it didn't).

 

[Maxperson]

Sure you can. I couldn't play D&D the way I wanted because of 4e's mechanics and playstyle design, so I was excluded from the kind of D&D play I previously wasn't excluded from (because the game used to better support the type of play I preferred, and then it didn't).

You really need to look up what excluded means.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You really need to look up what excluded means.

I would say the same to you. It doesn't have to mean literally prevented from playing. It can also be prevented from playing how you like with new, more restrictive rules for a game that's supposed to the same game (per their marketing at least).

 

[soviet]

I would say the same to you. It doesn't have to mean literally prevented from playing. It can also be prevented from playing how you like with new, more restrictive rules for a game that's supposed to the same game (per their marketing at least).

Haven't you chosen to play with those different rules by engaging with the new edition? It's not like it's an online game where the rules change from under you. Your books still exist. This is like being outraged that Burger King won't sell you a Big Mac. Just keep going to McDonalds.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sure you can. I couldn't play D&D the way I wanted because of 4e's mechanics and playstyle design, so I was excluded from the kind of D&D play I previously wasn't excluded from (because the game used to better support the type of play I preferred, and then it didn't).

Yeah, I was also quite upset when the WotC’s agents broke into my house and burned all my 3e books. Talk about aggressive marketing!

 

[Umbran]

Well, I spent over a year running and playing 4e, and at the end of it I enjoyed it less, as the things I didn't care for about it bothered me more and more...

(emphasis mine)
Right, but you don't indicate any effort to recontextualize what you did and didn't like.

For example - I am not a fan of football, or any professional sports. I live in Massachusetts, but caring less about the Patriots' loss in the Superbowl might require me to suffer brain death.

But, when the Pats do get into the Superbowl, my wife and I generally get invited to someone's house to watch the game. If I want to really enjoy the time with my friends, I had to find a way to engage with football in a way that is pleasant to me, at least in that context.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Haven't you chosen to play with those different rules by engaging with the new edition? It's not like it's an online game where the rules change from under you. Your books still exist. This is like being outraged that Burger King won't sell you a Big Mac. Just keep going to McDonalds.

No, it's like if McDonald's decided not to sell Big Macs anymore, but some of their old restaurants were technically still open. And you could go there, but all the advertising is pushing the new stores, and most people are going there, and the culture is telling you the new store is where everyone should be eating, and that it's really the same as the old store, and no one really liked Big Macs anyway. But you did, and you feel excluded.

 

[Maxperson]

I would say the same to you. It doesn't have to mean literally prevented from playing. It can also be prevented from playing how you like with new, more restrictive rules for a game that's supposed to the same game (per their marketing at least).

So you're inventing a personal definition for exclusion. Understood and noted for the future when you say you've been excluded from things.

 

[Micah Sweet]

(emphasis mine)
Right, but you don't indicate any effort to recontextualize what you did and didn't like.

For example - I am not a fan of football, or any professional sports. I live in Massachusetts, but caring less about the Patriots' loss in the Superbowl might require me to suffer brain death.

But, when the Pats do get into the Superbowl, my wife and I generally get invited to someone's house to watch the game. If I want to really enjoy the time with my friends, I had to find a way to engage with football in a way that is pleasant to me, at least in that context.

How is that not the same as, "you don't like it? Like it anyway."?