Let's talk about "plot", "story", and "play to find out."

I think my TTRPG sessions are like documentaries. Some stuff happens, then after the session you can recount the series of events that happened. Sometimes the sessions have a classic story structure to them, sometimes they don't. As for what to call what happens DURING a session, well, that has a unique descriptor, which is "playing a TTRPG" that is wholly unique, though it has comparisons to storytelling and gameplay.
 

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Whether it be an hour within any of the movies or the middle movie as a stand alone...it's a story. They way I see RPGS bring played out is that the story is being created via play at the same time as play.
The story for me is a large part of what makes RPGS different to boardgames. The way its being framed here is that the story comes after in RPGs and thus RPGs and boardgames would be the same during play.

Is that your experience? Are RPGs at your table like a boardgame and only considered different when play is done and the story is complete?
No, that is not my experience. My experience is that I am interacting with the setting and the other characters through the medium of my PC in play. That is, I am functionally living that character's life (with some obvious abstractions) and am no more "creating a story" while I do than I myself am doing living my actual real life. Story is what happens when you re-tell events afterward. As I have said several times before in this thread, before that, it's just a bunch of stuff that happened.
 

What exactly makes your Ironsworn experience feel like an actual game to you? To me all that sounds like a few folks telling a story to each other. I don't see any "game" there.

That’s a rather crappy interpretation. I didn’t really describe the mechanics at all…just pointed out that they exist and therefore constrain the participants.

It’d be like if I said “what makes your D&D experience a game? It sounds like the GM telling you a story.”

If you have any actual questions, I’ll be happy to answer them… but phrasing like that? Come on.
 


I would consider playing in an RPG session the equivalent of watching a movie or reading a book. It's how I "consume" the story generated by the process of gameplay, and I find it more entertaining to receive the story that way than to read or to hear a recounting of the transcript of play after the fact.
 

That’s a rather crappy interpretation. I didn’t really describe the mechanics at all…just pointed out that they exist and therefore constrain the participants.

It’d be like if I said “what makes your D&D experience a game? It sounds like the GM telling you a story.”

If you have any actual questions, I’ll be happy to answer them… but phrasing like that? Come on.
I'm sorry, I legitimately didn't see anything in your description as a game. I apologize if that comes off as insulting. Can you describe the mechanics and how they constrain you?
 


it is in the results part of play that it gets writer's room-y. Deciding what that die result means in the fiction, since everyone has input and interest in how those things turn out.

but maybe that was just the way the person who introduced me to it played the game, and it isn't supposed to work that way.
I'm looking at this and this from the SRD:

The Players
Each player creates a character and works with the other players to create the crew to which their characters belong. Each player strives to bring their character to life as an interesting, daring character who reaches boldly beyond their current safety and means​
The players work together with the Game Master to establish the tone and style of the game by making judgment calls about the mechanics, dice, and consequences of actions. The players take responsibility as co-authors of the game with the GM. . . .​
The Game Master
The GM establishes the dynamic world around the characters. The GM plays all the non-player characters in the world by giving each one a concrete desire and preferred method of action​
The GM helps organize the conversation of the game so it’s pointed toward the interesting elements of play. The GM isn’t in charge of the story and doesn’t have to plan events ahead of time. They present interesting opportunities to the players, then follow the chain of action and consequences wherever they lead. . . .​
Judge the Result
. . .​
Each 4/5 and 1-3 outcome lists suggested consequences for the character. The worse your position, the worse the consequences are. The GM can inflict one or more of these consequences, depending on the circumstances of the action roll. PCs have the ability to avoid or reduce the severity of consequences that they suffer by resisting them. . . .​
When you narrate the action after the roll, the GM and player collaborate together to say what happens on-screen. Tell us how you vault across to the other rooftop. Tell us what you say to the Inspector to convince her. The GM will tell us how she reacts. When you face the Red Sash duelist, what’s your fighting style like? Etc.

It's clear that the players and GM work together. I also think it's clear that this is similar to how a carpenter and a plumber work together in renovating a bathroom: they collaborate, but they perform different jobs. The players bring their PCs to life; and that's why they narrate things like vaulting across the rooftops and how they fight and what they say. The GM brings the world and NPCs to life, and that's why the GM inflicts consequences and decides how the NPC reacts to what the PC says. All of this having to be done, of course, within the parameters set by the outcomes of rolls.

If the GM is trying to get the players to do the GM's job; or is trying to take control of the players' job; then I can see how it might feel like a "writers' room". But I'm not sure why the GM would do that. As per the Eero Tuovinen blog that I posted a bit from a little way upthread, the whole point of RPGing, on the player side, is that (if the rules and procedures are properly designed) then all you have to do is play your character!

EDITing to respond to this:
So when you say "writer's room-y", do you mean it was the collaborative nature of the resolution that was problematic, as opposed to leaving the result of the narration up to just the impacted player and the GM?
I think that people who are collaborating in a way that ignores the division of responsibilities among the collaborators are creating their own problem!

The players should do their job - including answering the GM's questions about what their PC is doing, thinking, feeling, saying, etc. And the GM should do their job - saying how the world and the NPCs respond to what the PCs do. All of this, of course, within the constraints that the rolls generate.
 

Right, but when we were playing, this is where everyone got in on interpreting what that means in the fiction precisely, and how to use that to further the story we were trying to craft. That is the writer's room bit I am talking about.
I suspect that we were doing it wrong and that I would like S&V plenty if I ran it more trad.
Yeah, it sounds like players and GM were not each doing their respective jobs. (As per what the rules say, which I'm taking from the BitD SRD.)
 

Notably missing from the above is a discussion of "the fiction" and "in character" -- which I appreciate. While it is common to play RPGs that way, it isn't actually necessary. A player is not required to inhabit their character in order to play an RPG. Nor is the GM required to put on funny hats and voices. Play will still result in these stories, even without things we tend to think of as integral to stories.
I was struck by this post. There can't be a RPG without "fiction": shared imagination is core to RPGing.

Funny hats, voices and other sorts of performance, on the other hand, are optional in RPGing but also not integral to stories. (Not all stories are performances.)
 

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